How to get rid of a "corked palate"?

Tasted a corked wine tonight but can't get rid of the TCA molecules when tasting another non-corked wine. What to do?

Throw the palette away and stop painting, maybe?

Or possibly you mean "palate"?

LOL. Hate these spell checkers...

Jan, Hi.....

Indeed to those who have high TCA sensitivity, the corked aromas and flavors tend to carry over on the palate to the next wines. Best way after a corked wine is to chew a generous chunk of white bread, ideally non-sugared, to spit that out and to rinse the palate thoroughly with a white wine.

Best
Rogov

OK, a science question (Dr Lipton?). I consider myself a 4 on a 10 scale of TCA sensitivity. I run about 3-4% corked bottles, but accept I miss some when ppt are under 3. When I run across a corked bottle I rinse glass, maybe swig a little water if I tasted (if wine is obviously corked, probably over 5 ppt, I usually get it before tasting). No big deal. I realize that many are more sensitive than I. I also realize that TCA is very pervasive, with some sensing at <2ppt.

But....I've seen people demand a new glass because of having a corked wine. I think that everyone agrees that most wines identified as corked have between 2-8 ppt. Let's assume that a bottle is totally, egregiously corked, at 30 ppt. And despite that reeking stench that one still poured into glass. One dumps, a couple drops remain. A several ounce rinse of water is poured and dumped. Wouldn't the remaining TCA be waaaaayy less than 1ppt? Something on the order of .01 ptt?

Similarly, I'm curious about the science of this one. If one tasted even a horribly corked wine despite the stench, wouldn't a quick mouthrinse work? Water and/or bread, or simply a little time, work for incredibly hot peppers, where the heat is in an oil that is hydrophobic, and TCA should be much easier to rinse away.

Good question. A couple of years ago I took and all-day course on wine flaws at Central Washington University, an approximately eight-hour ordeal of tasting and identifying flawed wines. The instructor saved TCA for the last as she said it messed up your sense of taste much more than any of the other flaws.

Dale, Hi.....

Not a measured scientific response but one based on experience...... Indeed TCA washes away easily from the wine glass and a quick water rinse will generally do the trick. The problem is more complex with re the palate, however, for depending on the level of one's sensitivity, the combination of taste and aroma can penetrate the nostrils and make clearing, cleaning a tricky business. That's why I suggest with extreme sensitivity rinsing the palate with a white wine, the aromas and flavors of which will do far more than water to clear the various sensors involved.

Best
Rogov

For some reason I do not get to the 10% score of corked bottles that people say is the average statistic. When it hits me though, it is almost impossible for me to enjoy any wine 2-3 hours after. When I smell a suspicious cork, I always try to taste, with a small hope that my nose was not right. Maybe I should just stop doing that....

Jan, do you really go from sniffing the cork to tasting the wine? The most important step is sniffing the wine itself. If it is badly corked you then need go further. I have never had any problem with TCA in a wine affecting the tase of other wines, and I suspect the reason is that the really badly affected wines get nowhere near my palate - indeed I am not sure I would put my nose right into the glass of the worst offenders.

Having said that, I do sip slightly corked wines as I find that my palate gives the best confirmation that there really is a problem.

I don't think I am very sensitive to TCA, as I can only remember maybe 2-3 bottles that I could definitively say were corked, out of perhaps 150 or so drunk to date (prior to 2007, I only had at most 5-10 bottles a year, due to the unreasonable attitudes towards alcohol pervasive in the Baptist church). One of the reasons I no longer participate in the Baptist church...

I'm with you, Robert. I've had very few corked wines that I knew were corked. Those that did have that damp newspaper smell, I often drank anyway. It was only after coming to WLDG that I knew what corked meant.

Similarly, I'm curious about the science of this one. If one tasted even a horribly corked wine despite the stench, wouldn't a quick mouthrinse work? Water and/or bread, or simply a little time, work for incredibly hot peppers, where the heat is in an oil that is hydrophobic, and TCA should be much easier to rinse away.

The problem here is that TCA, unlike capsaicin, is detected in the nose via retronasal olfaction. So, rinsing your mouth out may not help too much if TCA persists in your sinuses or nasal passages. I finesse this problem as Steve does by rarely if ever consuming a wine I judge to be corked by its smell. When I have had the misfortune of putting a corked wine in my mouth, the best remedy I have found is a variant on Rogov's method: rinsing with a sparkling wine, preferably Champagne. The bubbles seem to help me cleanse my palate, but that may be more psychological than physiological.

Mark Lipton

Thanks Mark. Even a mid-to-low sensitive like me seldom actually tastes a really corked wine, so I haven't had the problem. So I'm guessing you'd agree that those that claim that a pour of a TCA infected wine can persist even after a couple of rinses are off? They point out that TCA is detectable in parts per trillion, I point out that they didn't have pure TCA in their glass, but something that is measured in ppt. Although the ones that drive me really crazy are those who declare that the problem comes from rinsing your glass, because it "dilutes" the wine. No one to date has taken me up on my offer to do blind tests of rinsed and dry glasses.

So I'm guessing you'd agree that those that claim that a pour of a TCA infected wine can persist even after a couple of rinses are off? They point out that TCA is detectable in parts per trillion, I point out that they didn't have pure TCA in their glass, but something that is measured in ppt. Although the ones that drive me really crazy are those who declare that the problem comes from rinsing your glass, because it "dilutes" the wine. No one to date has taken me up on my offer to do blind tests of rinsed and dry glasses.

Yes, you're right about the dilution. I know what you mean about the whole rinsing the glass thing, too: 2 ml of water is going to affect the flavor of a 90 ml pour?

Mark Lipton

So I'm guessing you'd agree that those that claim that a pour of a TCA infected wine can persist even after a couple of rinses are off? They point out that TCA is detectable in parts per trillion, I point out that they didn't have pure TCA in their glass, but something that is measured in ppt. Although the ones that drive me really crazy are those who declare that the problem comes from rinsing your glass, because it "dilutes" the wine. No one to date has taken me up on my offer to do blind tests of rinsed and dry glasses.

Yes, you're right about the dilution. I know what you mean about the whole rinsing the glass thing, too: 2 ml of water is going to affect the flavor of a 90 ml pour?

Mark Lipton

All of which is basically correct but there could be a small problem. Keep in mind for example that some Syrah wines are blended with a mere 1% of Viognier and that does indeed have an impact on the wine. In general though, there should be no problem with rinsing with water. Best though after rinsing is to turn the glass upside down on a sheet of of absorbent toweling or a clean napkin to let the remaining water have just a few seconds to drip out.

At professional tastings when one has to rinse best after the water rinse is to have a very small amount of the new wine being tasted poured into the glass, to swirl thoroughly, to drain that wine by turnng the glass slowly so that it coats the sides of the glass and removes whatever else may be remaining, to toss that into the spit bucket and only then to have the wine poured for tasting.

Best
Rogov

Keep in mind for example that some Syrah wines are blended with a mere 1% of Viognier and that does indeed have an impact on the wine.

True, but it is not particularly relevant. Remember all wines are mainly water anyway, and water tastes of very little. Neither of these statements are true for Viognier.

Keep in mind for example that some Syrah wines are blended with a mere 1% of Viognier and that does indeed have an impact on the wine.

True, but it is not particularly relevant. Remember all wines are mainly water anyway, and water tastes of very little. Neither of these statements are true for Viognier.

Point well taken.

Best
Rogov

So I'm guessing you'd agree that those that claim that a pour of a TCA infected wine can persist even after a couple of rinses are off? They point out that TCA is detectable in parts per trillion, I point out that they didn't have pure TCA in their glass, but something that is measured in ppt. Although the ones that drive me really crazy are those who declare that the problem comes from rinsing your glass, because it "dilutes" the wine. No one to date has taken me up on my offer to do blind tests of rinsed and dry glasses.

Yes, you're right about the dilution. I know what you mean about the whole rinsing the glass thing, too: 2 ml of water is going to affect the flavor of a 90 ml pour?

Mark Lipton

David Schildknecht wrote an impassioned plea for rinsing with wine, not water, on eBob a while ago. He thinks that the important thing is the film of wine on the side of the glass; replace that with water and you diminish the aroma of the wine substantially. I think he might be right. (Italians rinse glasses with the new wine carefully while tasting, I assume for the same reason.)

On a seperate note, the water in my area is not very good, and I don't want to add those smells to my wine. I was staying in the town of Napa once and the water smelled distinctly corked...

David Schildknecht wrote an impassioned plea for rinsing with wine, not water, on eBob a while ago. He thinks that the important thing is the film of wine on the side of the glass; replace that with water and you diminish the aroma of the wine substantially. I think he might be right. (Italians rinse glasses with the new wine carefully while tasting, I assume for the same reason.)
.

I sometimes "prime" wine glasses at beginning with an open non-flawed wine. And I don't usually rinse between wines at an offline, if first wine isn't flawed - I think a good shake when dumping is usually sufficient. Again, assuming no off aromas, hard to believe that that 1 ml of previous wine is going to change my mind about the new wine.

Keep in mind for example that some Syrah wines are blended with a mere 1% of Viognier and that does indeed have an impact on the wine.

True, but it is not particularly relevant. Remember all wines are mainly water anyway, and water tastes of very little. Neither of these statements are true for Viognier.

And that Viognier is co-fermented with the Syrah, promoting greater extraction and color stabilization. Certainly, Viognier has aromatic qualities that might show up, but at least in the N. Rhone the impact is mostly that of improved extraction of the Syrah.

Mark Lipton