Italian Grappa Question....

It used to be that Italian grappa was pretty vile stuff. It was merely a by-product of the winemaking process. The pressed pommace was given a hit of sugar, water was added, and this was fermented out to make a "false" wine, which was subsequently distilled to make this hideous beverage. My understanding is that in the late '70's-early '80's, they quit making grappa from false wine and started using "real" wine, resulting in a much smoother and palatable beverage..though some still remind me of drinking lye.
I was visiting w/ a LosAlamos distiller (DonQuixote) last night and he claimed that Italian grappa was still required to be made from a false wine. I was skeptical but thought I would check here.
Italian grappa: false wine or real wine??
Tom

It's not "false wine", Tom.

It's real wine.

What has changed in the making of grappa is that the residual grape pomace is delivered fresh to the grappa maker, the moisture from the skins and remainder of pulp is processed (warm water is often used) and fermented. Nothing "false" about the wine, though I doubt any of us would want to drink the stuff. The other thing that has changed is the distillation process---in that instead of a quick distillation, which leaves lots of aldehydes and phenols and oily impurities, the heads and tails of the distillation were separated out, and the heart---the good stuff---was preserved.

Formerly, when grappa was made, the 'cake' was often rancid, old and oxidated vinegar. When you use pomace from fresh grapes----and really good grapes, not just any old rubbish---and pay attention to proper distillation, you get...well, essentially, you get an eau-de-vie instead of vile, oily rotgut brandy.

So who makes the good stuff? Is there any way to tell from the label whether the pomace is from nebbiolo as opposed to, say, trebbiano? And is there any tasteable difference between them?

Michael, Hi...

I've just written a major article about grappa for my newspaper. Until that is printed, I cannot post it here but promise to do so the moment it appears in print.

The one thing I can promise is that the "good old days" of grappa (burned in the mouth, burned in the throad, burned on the way down and burned in the stomach) are gone and in their place are grappas for ladies and gentlemen, some of which will compete with fine brandies.

As to varietal grappa (single grape variety), most of the better producers are giving up on that, focusing instead on pomace left not from single varieties but on pomace from wines of high repute. Indeed, no-one on god's green earth could taste a grappa and say from what grape it had been made.

Best
Rogov

Indeed, no-one on god's green earth could taste a grappa and say from what grape it had been made.

Well, actually, I believe you may be wrong. Even a mediocre taster can distinguish a grappa made from a highly aromatic, idiosyncratic grape such as muscat or gewürztraminer. And grappa made from picolit is not more expensive just because it's more fashionable and scarcer than others...

There is a scientific study, 'Variety aromatic compounds in monovarietal grappa and distillates of grapes [Friuli-Venezia Giulia; Sicily]', published in 2006 by Italy's Rivista di Viticoltura e di Enologia (Serial ID - ISSN: 0370-7865), authored by R. Di Stefano and D. Borsa, whose English-language abstract politely indicates that the system can be used to determine if the varietal content mentioned on the labels of some grappas is actually a sham:

"The aroma compounds of some commercial grappa and distillates of picolit, sauvignon, verduzzo, ribolla, traminer and cabernet sauvignon grapes grown in Friuli and of distillates of zibibbo of Pantelleria grown on Pantelleria island have been analysed, in order to point out which characteristics could be useful to distinguish them. The chromatographic profiles of distillates, obtained by iso-octane extraction of volatile compounds followed by GC-MS analysis, have been compared with the ones obtained from grapes. The method illustrated below allows to point out the differences between distillates obtained from non-aromatic and aromatic grapes (traminer and zibibbo) and to assess their variety profile. Some samples present indeed a very characteristic identity, which is not worn down by distillation. On the contrary, in some other samples the differences between the variety profiles of grapes and of their respective distillates were so pronounced to lead to the hypothesis that the distillate origin did not correspond to label indications. Compounds derived from norisoprenoids transformations never proved to be characteristic, probably because of the distillation methods and of the fact that head and tail products are drawn off."

I even have some practical experience. I have distilled some orujo (Spain's pomace spirit - less residual sugar, and made from fresher, often non-pressed pomace, than Italy's grappa, and so rather different, but still a marc distillate) from my own Manchuela grapes in a northern Spain distillery, which in turn makes its own orujo from its local Liébana grapes. Mine is a syrah-grenache blend; theirs is a mencía-palomino blend. The difference between the two is striking, and the syrah predominance in mine is as obvious as the mencía predominance in theirs.

Victor:

You are correct; just try (for example) a Marolo Grappa di Moscato, and it is very difficult/impossible to miss the unique aromatics of the grape in the distillate!

In my experience, three factors contribute to a softer (less harsh) grappa: (1) a wetter pomace, or distillation of wine without the marc (but then, it's really not grappa); (2) separation of head/tail from final product; and (3) distillation by indirect heat (i.e. bagno-maria/bain-marie/like a double boiler).

Marco

P.S. My favorite grappas are the old (traditional) Levi grappas and the Marolo grappas (esp. from Arneis & Moscato). If you can find it, Bosso makes a grappa di Moscato which is aged in wood for 25 years (delicious). Nonino makes smooth aromatic, expensive grappas from Friuli, and Jacopo Poli (from Veneto) is a great distiller of grappas and fruit brandies (they make a great William's Pear distillate). If you're ever in Verona, go to Bottega del Vino (a great old wine bar/osteria) and try their Grappa di Amarone (aged ten years in barrels) made by the excellent distillery of "Franceschini" in Cavaion Veronese. You can usually buy a few of the bottles (25 cl.) to go.

Besides the three factors which Marco believes contributes to a much softer (less harsh) grappa (yet I think in his P.S he does hint to it) and that is letting the grappa “barrel age”.

Some might find the following article interesting
http://www.tuscany-villas.it/blog/2007/ ... terthought

Salute

Besides the three factors which Marco believes contributes to a much softer (less harsh) grappa (yet I think in his P.S he does hint to it) and that is letting the grappa “barrel age”.

Some might find the following article interesting
http://www.tuscany-villas.it/blog/2007/ ... terthought

Salute

Victorwine:

Yes, the barrel smooths out the roughness of grappa; Romano Levi (who passed away this past May) distilled exclusively with the "fuoco diretto" method (direct fire/heat) and produced very traditional, fiery grappas. His "Grappa della Botte Piccola" (grappa from the little barrel) was unusually soft, and had all of the class, style, and drinkability of a great, old single-malt scotch! In fact a bottle Romano gave me back in 1982 was a dead-ringer for a fine, peaty, Laphroaig-like single-malt!

Here's a link to a site dedicated to the great distiller, Romano Levi:
http://www.romanolevi.net/

Marco

So who makes the good stuff? Is there any way to tell from the label whether the pomace is from nebbiolo as opposed to, say, trebbiano? And is there any tasteable difference between them?

Anyone who goes to the trouble to make a single-variety grappa will almost certainly put the name of the variety on the label.

Tasteable difference? If you mean aromatic qualities, absolutely. Especially in the more aromatic grapes, such as Moscato.

The current makers of grappa are, like the makers of eau-de-vie, focusing on isolating the purity of expression of each variety.

The aforementioned Nonino and Jacopo Poli are both great producers of grappa.

Nonino has recently introduced an entirely new official designation of spirit. They had to get a declaration from the Italian authorities to do it. It's called "agrumi", and it's a clear, unaged brandy made from honey. They make, I believe, seven types. I have seen and tasted only one, the Castagno, or chestnut honey. The other types include citrus tree honey and acacia honey, I understand.

Since honey doesn't ferment spontaneously, it's difficult to make a consistent brandy from it. You have to make a "wash" of honey and water to get the right mixture for fermentation. My understanding was the Nonino people had to experiment quite a bit before they got it down properly.

For Canadians, there is some fine grappa being made in the Okanagon, by a company called Okanagon Spirits. An artisanal sort called Frank Dieter is the intense and talented creator, and he is---to say the least---uncompomising in his quality standards. I've had his Pinot Grigio Grappa, and it was great. Didn't have the opportunity to try his Pinot Noir Grappa, but everybody who has raved about it.

Frank also makes a Canados (calvados-style wood-aged apple brandy), an absinthe called Taboo, and some eau-de-vie and liqueurs (his version of Pear William is well worth seeking out).

Grappa made from white grapes has always confused me, since (if I understand it) grappa is a distillation of the still-alcoholic pomace, and there is no still-alcoholic pomace in white-wine-making (unless you're Gravner). I suppose it's made from white wine, possibly with the skins involved.

I imagine that originally grappa was an economy measure; once you've pressed the hell out of the pomace, there's still some good stuff in there...

Here’s some interesting “tidbits” from “ItalianMade” about the classification of grappa;
http://www.italianmade.com/wines/grappa5.cfm

Salute

Wow, thanks to all for a most informative string. Daniel, I'm looking forward to your article, and thanks to Marco for specific distiller recommendations. I'm not likely to be in Verona anytime soon, but that someone has made an Amarone grappa makes it worth hoping there's someone else who makes one for export.

The other thing that has changed is the distillation process---in that instead of a quick distillation, which leaves lots of aldehydes and phenols and oily impurities, the heads and tails of the distillation were separated out, and the heart---the good stuff---was preserved.

They leave in the heads and tails? That certainly explains why most grappa (and its French relative, marc) is more suitable as a paint remover than for drinking.

Worst hangover headache I ever had was from a marc de gewurztraminer. Tasted OK at the time, but I was sick as a dog the day after.

There's too much good brandy in this world to drink grappa or marc.

-Paul W.

The other thing that has changed is the distillation process---in that instead of a quick distillation, which leaves lots of aldehydes and phenols and oily impurities, the heads and tails of the distillation were separated out, and the heart---the good stuff---was preserved.

They leave in the heads and tails? That certainly explains why most grappa (and its French relative, marc) is more suitable as a paint remover than for drinking.

Worst hangover headache I ever had was from a marc de gewurztraminer. Tasted OK at the time, but I was sick as a dog the day after.

There's too much good brandy in this world to drink grappa or marc.

-Paul W.

Yeah, Paul, sounds gruesome, doesn't it.

I've recently done a lot of research into distillation, and found (among other things) that there's an awful lot of stills out there, and a lot of primitive hooch being made. Since pretty much anyone can make a distilled beverage, and given the ingenuity of a guy who wants to get blasted---or even better, make a buck or two---there's still a lot of 'shinin' goin on around the world.

Problem is, most of those stills don't have the sophistication---or the desire, I think--- to separate out the good from the bad. Hence, some rotten stuff gets made and consumed. And you hear reports of people going blind or dying from drinking the stuff. Years ago I had grappa that made you think you were going blind. Now there are types that I am actually quite fond of. I've got about six different bottles of grappi.

And for the record: the most awful hangover I had was from slivovitz.

And for the record: the most awful hangover I had was from slivovitz.

I've steered clear of that stuff.

-Paul W.

grappi.

It's grappe], actually.

grappi.

It's grappe], actually.

Thanks, Victor.

We've had some very fine grappa invecchia over the holidays with all the clear and evident differences you would expect between prosecco and moscato versions. That said, if served the prosecco versions blind I don't think I would be able to identify the grape.

Almost forgot...posted a rather long note (including tasting notes) about grappa a short while ago at viewtopic.php?f=29&t=20391&p=174634&hilit=grappa#p174634

Best
Rogov