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Should I really expect to open a wine 4 days

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Should I really expect to open a wine 4 days

by SteveG » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:05 pm

before I want to drink it?

I have managed to understand that some wines (maybe even most) will benefit from decanting even if they aren't harboring any sediment, and often taste better hours after opening...but this wine went from interesting but severely challenging to outright fabulous, sometime between day 3 and day 4, open in my refrigerator:

2004 Jean Mâcle Côtes du Jura

12/14/2008 rated 96 points: Well, it took almost 4 days and half the bottle for this to loosen up, but well worth the wait! All white fruit straight through from nose to incredibly long finish. This wine is so intense I sipped it through 2 meals and still had a couple of glasses left (just as well, those were the best ones!). Pure concentrated ultra-ripe apple, peach and pear flavors without even a hint of sweetness. Powerful but notably tart for at least 72 hours, but absolutely fabulous thereafter. Profoundly delicious, an exceptional balance of strength and subtlety, enjoyed variously with salmon patties, cold chicken and double gloucester cheese, this wine would compliment a wide range of foods.
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Re: Should I really expect to open a wine 4 days

by David Creighton » Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:39 am

that amount of time would almost indicate a lot of sulphur; but i have no idea why that would be the case in a jura wine.
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TomHill

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Well.....No...

by TomHill » Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:27 am

SteveG wrote:before I want to drink it?

I have managed to understand that some wines (maybe even most) will benefit from decanting even if they aren't harboring any sediment, and often taste better hours after opening...but this wine went from interesting but severely challenging to outright fabulous, sometime between day 3 and day 4, open in my refrigerator:

2004 Jean Mâcle Côtes du Jura

12/14/2008 rated 96 points: Well, it took almost 4 days and half the bottle for this to loosen up, but well worth the wait! All white fruit straight through from nose to incredibly long finish. This wine is so intense I sipped it through 2 meals and still had a couple of glasses left (just as well, those were the best ones!). Pure concentrated ultra-ripe apple, peach and pear flavors without even a hint of sweetness. Powerful but notably tart for at least 72 hours, but absolutely fabulous thereafter. Profoundly delicious, an exceptional balance of strength and subtlety, enjoyed variously with salmon patties, cold chicken and double gloucester cheese, this wine would compliment a wide range of foods.


But you just never know how a wine is going to evolve after you've opened & decanted.
A lot of wine geeks seem to be fixated on capturing a wine exactly at its peak. They want to know how early you are to decant ir so's you can drink it when it shows its best. I've seen people lay down hard & fast rules that you must decant a young Barolo a day afore you drink it. Or, even sillier, that you must decant this or that wine 3.5 hrs before drinking it. These people are probably smoking some of those funny/little cigarettes.
So...you have an Alban Grenache '93. How soon should you decant it before serving?? I assert nobody in this world knows the answer to that...not even John Alban. Anybody that says otherwise is full of it. All you can do is hazard a guess.
Take your '04 Cotes du Jura. I doubt even the producer could predict that it would be what it was at 4.5 days after decanting. So...what would you do with an '05 version of this wine?? Who the heck knows.
I often will open a btl for dinner, find it underwhelming, stopper it up and set it aside on the counter. Sometimes the next day it can be wonderful...sometimes dead & gone.
It's all sort of a big crapshoot. The best way is to drink it over several days, like you did, and see where it takes you. Not the best way to make sure you have it at its peak..but otherwise it's just guesswork.
Jura wines are very strange beasts, some made in an oxidative style, some not. My experience is that, often, they'll change dramatically over a period of hrs/days....just like yours did. Again...it's all a crapshoot.
Curious, Steve...what was the wine like when you first opened it?? Maybe the change was not the effect of the oxygen, but a change in temperature that you had it??
Tom
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Re: Should I really expect to open a wine 4 days

by SteveG » Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:06 pm

Curious, Steve...what was the wine like when you first opened it?? Maybe the change was not the effect of the oxygen, but a change in temperature that you had it??
Tom


Thanks, Tom!

As is my usual, this wine was colder than appropriate when opened, then I pour a little in a glass to warm up, leaving the bottle on the counter. So...my first sips were undoubtedly chilly, but by the end of dinner almost certainly not so (I would guess in the low '60sF). Generally I find wines tarter and less aromatic colder, rounder and more volatile warmer. Truth is, however, I followed this same ritual the last day; I think the ideal temperature was on the warmer side, but the impression of this wine was far different all across the range after a few days.
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Yup....

by TomHill » Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:56 pm

SteveG wrote:

As is my usual, this wine was colder than appropriate when opened, then I pour a little in a glass to warm up, leaving the bottle on the counter. So...my first sips were undoubtedly chilly, but by the end of dinner almost certainly not so (I would guess in the low '60sF). Generally I find wines tarter and less aromatic colder, rounder and more volatile warmer.


Yup....Colder (white) wines seem tarter and are definitely less aromatic than warm ones. I reality, the sense of acidity on the palate is independent of the temperature for people who are trained to correctly sense acidity, according to the UC/Davis folks. Taste a glass of water at 50F and at 70F and tell which one tastes tarter. Of course, their acidity levels are the same/neutral.
I often serve more complex white wines and find them more to my taste when a bit warmer than recommended...in the mid-60F say.

From your description, Steve, I gather this Jura wine was not made in an oxidative style.
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Re: Should I really expect to open a wine 4 days

by SteveG » Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:18 pm

I often serve more complex white wines and find them more to my taste when a bit warmer than recommended...in the mid-60F say.

From your description, Steve, I gather this Jura wine was not made in an oxidative style.
Tom


I think your temperature guidance is spot-on.

Regarding the style, it was far, far less oxidative than this one:

http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=611109

which I loved (but my wife hated). I was going to add that the Montbourgeau also did not change so radically, except it was gone by day 2!
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Wink Lorch

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Re: Should I really expect to open a wine 4 days

by Wink Lorch » Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:40 pm

The Macle CdJ is certainly an oxidative wine in the way that it's been made and will have I think, about 20% Savagnin blended with the Chardonnay. The Savagnin would have been aged as a Vin Jaune in unfilled barrels and I wouldn't be surprised if the Chardonnay had too.

Montbourgeau Etoile is 100% Chardonnay aged in a mixture of barrels and foudres and not topped up either.

The Savagnin in the Macle would account partly for the high acidity, and 2004 too was a very high acid year.

Temperature-wise, yes, around 16°C (that's in the 60sF isn't it? :)) is the sort of temperature that they serve all their traditional wines in the Jura (with the reds sometimes being cooler than this!).

So, why did the Macle change so much? Certainly I would think that a minimum of SO2 was used. I can only say that Vin Jaune can take days and weeks to open up properly, so as this wine harks back to a Vin Jaune in style, then maybe that's why.

I do generally find Macle's Côtes du Jura quite oxidative, but it's true that I always find pure oxidative Chardonnays show the oxidative side in a more extreme way than one that has been blended with Savagnin.

By the way, if you want to spend a day in the Jura with me visiting these producers, bid in the food and wine bloggers Menu for Hope charity Raffle for the UN World Food Programme ... see my blog or Vinography! (sorry you have to get there under your own steam).
Wink Lorch - Wine writer, editor and educator
http://winetravelmedia.com and http://jurawine.co.uk
Also http://www.winetravelguides.com
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Re: Should I really expect to open a wine 4 days

by SteveG » Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:08 pm

Thanks, Wink, for you Most Informative response, esp. regarding the way the chardonnays may show their oxidative character!

As far as Vinography, I am already a fan!

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