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WTN: Some midtier '05 Bdx in Greenwich Village

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WTN: Some midtier '05 Bdx in Greenwich Village

by Dale Williams » Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:09 am

Matt and Paul organized a little look at the 2005 Bordeaux vintage last night at North Square by NYU. A nice private room (once you figured out where to go), nice group of winegeeks, nice evening.

I had volunteered to bring a starter, and wrapped the 1996 Francois Cotat "Les Culs de Beaujeu" Sancerre, as I felt old SB would be a fun test. Unfortunately this had a nose of old apple peels, and there was no discernible varietal character strong enough to make it through the oxidation.

However, knowing the Sancerre might be over the hill, I had brought a backup, the 2000 Trimbach "Cuvee Frederic Emile" Riesling. A bit more ripe/tropical than the 2001 I had recently, full-bodied, peaches and mango over a subtle edge of petrol. Long and fresh, I liked this a lot, it would have been a challenger for WOTN for me if we included in voting. A bit of infanticide. I took the scant remainders home for my wife, who loves Riesling. A-

On to the reds, in flights of 2 or 3

2005 Fleur Cardinale
Lots of tannins, lots of fruit and oak but surprisingly short. Very low acid, seems a bit heavy on palate. B-

2005 Beausejour Duffau
Much more acidity than the Fleur Cardinale, I felt more balanced. Big dark berry fruit, a lot of tannin but seemingly finer tannins than the FC, good length. I liked this, my third favorite red of the night. B+/A-

2005 Haut Brisson
(I think from conversation this said Reserve, but people seemed to agree there is only one wine). Medium bodied, striving for elegance though some slightly raspy tannins. Nice if not compelling. B

2005 Clinet
My red WOTN (and group's). At least one person felt it overripe, but to me it seemed typical ripe vintage Pomerol, though surprisingly forward. I'd call mid-modern, the oak is there contributing some mocha notes, but not overwhelming. I'm not sure I'd hold this for a long time, but a very nice wine A-

2005 Lucia
Ripe, jammy, not especially Bordeaux-ish to me (or anyone else). While some felt it reminded them of California, others of us voted for Italian Cabernet or Merlot (I think in a flight with Desiderio or Montiano this might have fit right in, though jammier). B-

2005 Haut Bailly
I thought this had some real Graves character, showed balance and had good length. Tannins more manageable than in some of the other wines, moderate acidity, very good length. I voted my second favorite of the night. A-/B+

2005 Smith Haut Lafitte
This seemed oaky, with a pronounced vanilla edge I didn't care for. Ripe and a bit boring. B-

2005 Pontet Canet
Big cassis fruit, a wall of tannins, this is impressive as to size, though a bit monolithic. B/B+

2005 Behere
Wow, a Pauillac I've never heard of! More herby than other wines, but in a pleasant way. Red and black currants, a little lead pencil, old style. Not huge (especially next to the PC), but with good structure. B

2005 Grand Puy Lacoste
Medium bodied, good length, some little hints of cigarbox and earth. B

2005 Leoville Poyferre
Big and ripe, rather typical recent Poyferre. Dark fruit with a little chocolate, rather oaky, but solid body underneath. B+

2005 Kirwan
Very modern, jammy, vanilla. A nice CalCab! B

2005 d'Issan

This has an acidic spine that others found offputting, but I rather liked. Rather muted fruit, some tough tannins, ok but I actually think I liked the $25 '04 as much at same stage. Time will tell.B

There was also a nice Coutet, but I was wiped out and didn't take any notes as I scurried to make an early train. With the exception of maybe the Lucia, Fleur Cardinale and SHL, I wouldn't mind owning any of these wines, but nothing compelled me to go to Winesearcher when I got home last night. Of course, this might be an awkward time. Those tannins were rather daunting. Still, a fun evening with a good group.

Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.
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Re: WTN: Some midtier '05 Bdx in Greenwich Village

by Rahsaan » Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:16 am

Dale Williams wrote:I had volunteered to bring a starter, and wrapped the 1996 Francois Cotat "Les Culs de Beaujeu" Sancerre, as I felt old SB would be a fun test. Unfortunately this had a nose of old apple peels, and there was no discernible varietal character strong enough to make it through the oxidation..


Do you have more bottles of this that you are aging?

I think the other cuvees should be able to last this long (and more).
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Re: WTN: Some midtier '05 Bdx in Greenwich Village

by Dale Williams » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:30 pm

no, this was a cellar orphan. I've had a 15 Vatan that was great, but in general for my tastes I think I've decided to drink the more structured Sancerres about 5 years after release, that softens the edge a bit, but I personally don't find aging really makes me like straight SB better.
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Re: WTN: Some midtier '05 Bdx in Greenwich Village

by Rahsaan » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:36 pm

Dale Williams wrote:I personally don't find aging really makes me like straight SB better.


Certainly not a minority opinion.

My only evidence for the ageworthiness of Cotat comes from this 88 La Grande Cote drunk in August 2005:

when I arrive Joe has already decanted a magnum of 1988 Francois Cotat Sancerre “La Grande Cote” which is delicious wine, showing so young and unevolved, and while it’s perfect lip-smacking ripe and fresh vivid fruit, it doesn’t actually impress me until several hours later, towards the end of the meal, when I finish my glass, and it has firmed up a bit, with more complex green celery seed flavors, but still the same ripe fresh vivid green Sancerre fruit. Beautiful. Last sip better than the first. 17-year-old Sancerre that needs serious decanting. No rush on this one.
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Re: WTN: Some midtier '05 Bdx in Greenwich Village

by David M. Bueker » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:47 pm

Thanks so much for the data point on the 2000 CFE.

I've had a few 2005s in recent months and tannic-ly daunting is a good way to describe virtually all of them. Those that do nto show such a tannic wall are inevitably so covered in gobs of ripe, mushy fruit that they resemble nothing so much as hot-vintage Yellow Tail.
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Re: WTN: Some midtier '05 Bdx in Greenwich Village

by Dale Williams » Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:06 pm

I like a little age on SB, but not a lot. I'm not denying that a great one from Cotat or Dagueneau might got 15, but I've had more disappointments than gleeful experiences.

David, I think it's a great vintage, but drinking now doesn't make much sense. I also don't think current prices make much sense, nor that they will hold if recession deepens/

I'm trying to resist trying the '00 CFE VT, I know it needs time. How does a half of the '89 sound for one of the luncheon wines?
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Re: WTN: Some midtier '05 Bdx in Greenwich Village

by David M. Bueker » Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:32 am

Trimbach VT? Oh yes! Thanks!
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Re: WTN: Some midtier '05 Bdx in Greenwich Village

by JC (NC) » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:00 pm

I have some familiarity with the 2000 Chateau Behere (purchased from Carolina Wine Company.) As I understand it, it is like an artisal Bordeaux from a farmer who used to sell his grapes to others but now makes hiw own wine. Here is one tasting note: (from 2003)

Two wines I really enjoyed without foreknowledge about them--2000 Chateau Behere (Pauillac, Bordeaux)--only about $30 a bottle, gets more press in Great Britain than in USA--highly rated by "Decanter" magazine; and 2002 Rose' des Glacieres Domaine Fallence Sainte Marie (Languedoc, France)--a rose' from 100% Syrah grape. The Behere had what I considered a classic Bordeaux bouquet (cassis, cedar, etc.) and a smooth taste now even though it is described as being able to keep for two decades. The rose' had a raspberry-like flavor and was refreshing served chilled on a hot July day.

I think I still may have a bottle or two of the 2000 Chateau Behere.

Francois Cotat is perhaps my favorite Sancerre winemaker but I haven't had any that mature. I may still have some from 1999 or 2000.

We had some 2005 Bordeaux wines at Mo'Cool last summer and they were still quite tannic. Early days yet but your selection included some names I usually enjoy such as Pontet Canet, Leoville Poyferre and Grand Puy Lacoste (although I think I have had the Grand Puy Ducasse more than the Lacoste.)
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Re: WTN: Some midtier '05 Bdx in Greenwich Village

by Matt Richman » Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:28 pm

Sorry to get my notes up so late.

* 2005 Château Beausejour (Duffau Lagarrosse) - France, Bordeaux, Libournais, St. Émilion Grand Cru
Tight black tannins. Smooth dark fruit. Olive & herb. Suave but very very young.
B/B+

* 2005 Château Fleur Cardinale - France, Bordeaux, Libournais, St. Émilion Grand Cru
Somewhat stewed and loose middle. Some coffee. Disjointed. Lacks verve. Some sweetness and oak.
B--


* 2005 Château Haut-Brisson - France, Bordeaux, Libournais, St. Émilion Grand Cru
Smooth, silky, juicy. Sweet core with coffee.
B

* 2005 Château Clinet - France, Bordeaux, Libournais, Pomerol
Thick and dense with tight tannins. Complex, dark, brawny. Young but will age well. Very nice.
A-

* 2005 Château Lucia - France, Bordeaux, Libournais, St. Émilion Grand Cru
Empty middle with light pretty floral notes on the edges. Lacks...a lot. Thin pretty fruit, but very short.
B--


* 2005 Château Haut-Bailly - France, Bordeaux, Graves, Pessac-Léognan
Tight classy juicy tannins. Dense with a dark side. Chewy. Muscular.
B++

* 2005 Château Smith Haut Lafitte - France, Bordeaux, Graves, Pessac-Léognan
Smooth, silky, creamy. A little loose. Broad, classy, modern, a bit sweet. A beautiful wine, but too modern for my taste.
B/B+


* 2005 Château Pontet-Canet - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, Pauillac
Sweet big core with strong bright fruit. Nicely built with nice acid. Classy. Pure, clean. Very complex.
B+/A-

* 2005 Château Béhèré - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, Pauillac
Broad with lots of class. Tannic, minty, herbal, silky, soft. A bit light.
B


* 2005 Château Grand-Puy-Lacoste - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, Pauillac
Classic Pauillac. Dense fruit, muscular, herbal. Classy profile with some notes of coffee.
B++

* 2005 Château Léoville Poyferré - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, St. Julien
Very nice. Smooth, classy. Some dark notes. Good acid, muscular. Very young.
B++

* 2005 Château Kirwan - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, Margaux
Sweetish, classy, tight tannins. Young and herbal with a long chalky finish.
B+

* 2005 Château d'Issan - France, Bordeaux, Médoc, Margaux
Espresso. Very dark and almost syrupy. Clear and clean, muscular and smooth.
B++


WOTN votes:
Clinet 21
Pontet Canet 13
Haut Bailly 7
GPL 5
Beausejour 3
Leoville Poyferre 3
D'Issan 2
Kirwan 1
Haut Brisson 1
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Re: WTN: Some midtier '05 Bdx in Greenwich Village

by Ryan M » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:33 am

Dale Williams wrote:2005 Kirwan
Very modern, jammy, vanilla. A nice CalCab! B


I had been thinking about getting a bottle of the Kirwan to lay down (when my grad student budget permits), but this description discourages me. Does it even taste like Bordeaux, let alone Margaux?
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Re: WTN: Some midtier '05 Bdx in Greenwich Village

by R Cabrera » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:59 pm

I agree with Dale’s and Matt’s notes above, at least for the most part. Thanks for the notes D and M.

I also liked the Kirwan during the tasting as it started out tannic and slightly harsh, but with a little bit of time in the glass it became silky, some sweetness but nicely-restrained and with good balance. I gave it a B+ during the tasting.

Ramon
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Re: WTN: Some midtier '05 Bdx in Greenwich Village

by Bob Parsons Alberta » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:45 am

* 2005 Château Clinet - France, Bordeaux, Libournais, Pomerol
Thick and dense with tight tannins. Complex, dark, brawny. Young but will age well. Very nice.


The so-called beverage writer in the Globe and Mail described a $20 Argentine malbec as a poor mans Pomerol. What on earth is the connection?!

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