The place for all things wine, focused on serious wine discussions.

WTN: SOBER at my place- Bdx, Burg, Rioja, Alsace, MSR

Moderators: Jenise, Robin Garr, David M. Bueker

no avatar
User

Dale Williams

Rank

Compassionate Connoisseur

Posts

11154

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:32 pm

Location

Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)

WTN: SOBER at my place- Bdx, Burg, Rioja, Alsace, MSR

by Dale Williams » Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:22 pm

(note: I know I'm inconsistent. I'd say I graded tougher than normal last night, as wines were mostly quite good).
After staying up late for election night, I could have used an early evening last night, but it was my turn to host SOBER. Luckily, I was mainly responsible for wines, cheeses, and cleanup; Betsy did all the cooking and joined the dinner.

I thought of doing a Guy Fawkes theme, but toffee apples and peas in vinegar didn't really appeal. So I made some menu requests to Betsy, and got to choosing wines. While SOBER is usually a time to bring out the big guns, I contemplated a Recession theme, with bottles under $40. Decided in the end to mix up some QPRs with some more traditional SOBER wines.

The non-blind starter as people gathered was the 1985 Trimbach Seigneurs de Ribeaupierre Gewurztraminer. Oldest dry Gewurz I've had, and showing very well. Classic lychee meets ginger, good acidity, some Rieslingesque petrol notes. John thinks it a little hot. Good length, I enjoy. B+

Rest of the dinner wines served blind (but not for me)
First course was a pumpkin gratin/souffle with a couple of white Burgundies.
1999 R& V Dauvissat Vaillons
This was masquerading as a 25 year old Chablis, "old Chardonnay" cries went up from beginning. Color darkened, PremOx baby, PremOx. Down the drain. Flawed, NR

2002 Fevre "Bougrous" Chablis Grand Cru
This was easily identified as Chardonnay also, though I think guesses centered in Cote de Beaune. Lemony fruit, less acidic than classic Chablis. Ripe but a little flat. Seems older than it should, though not in full-blown PremOx mode. B-/C+

So far, food is much better than the wine.

Next up Betsy had some puff pastry with a mushroom sauce and a dab of creme fraiche. This flight was easily identified by everyone as red Burgundy, but guesses were centered around Chambolle and Volnay. Led to a discussion of Savigny as the value center of Burgundy (though I noted prices have been going up of late as more and more people look to Savigny)

1993 Mongeard-Mugneret "Les Narbantons" Savigny-les-Beaune 1er
Forward ripe fruit, but with a good acidic spine. Black raspberries, some earth, drinking very well. B+

1993 Maurice Ecard "Les Narbantons" Savigny-les-Beaune 1er

A little more reticent, but also more layered. Red berry fruit , damp soil, a touch of perfumey spice. Elegant yet with a bit of power. A re-sip at midnight while cleaning up is even better.A-

Next flight came between courses, quick consensus "we're not in France any more," but initial guesses centered on Italy.

1973 Lopez de Heredia Tondonia Gran Reserva
I think I would have guessed Barolo if this was blind for me. Sweet red fruit, some tar and iron filings, nice length, light but with good concentration. B+

1981 Lopez de Heredia Bosconia Gran Reserva
Shows much younger, backbone of acidity and some tannin, fresh red fruit. Lots of potential. This is really singing about midnight. A-

Next course was osso buco with a risotto with speck and mushrooms, with brussels sprouts. John got Medoc quickly, Mark got Margaux and then Rausan Segla, John got the '83 and someone guessed the '86. No mystery here!

1983 Rausan Segla
Ripe red and black fruit, lush texture, some cigarbox. Showing quite nicely, yum. B+

1986 Rausan Segla
I thought this was lovely, though at least some people preferred the '83. Tannins are still there, but ripe and supple rather than drying or hard. Cassis and a bit of ripe red plum, earth, smoke, cedar. Challenger for WOTN. A-

On the last dabs of the meal and some cheese (Montgomery Cheddar, Reblechon, St Nectaire, and Tomme de Savoie), the final blind flight. Dan got Graves quickly for the LMHB, and John was on Right Bank for the Canons, but all the initial guesses were younger than these wines (whch all showed very fresh in my opinion).

1970 La Mission Haut Brion
Earth and a mushroomy note, cassis and black raspberries, some cigarbox aromas. Young, vigorous, complex. Still a bit of tannin, but not obtrusive. Could pass for 15 years younger. A-

1970 Canon

A touch herbal.minty (which led to some Cab Franc guesses). Good acidity, tannins pretty much bye-bye, fairly classic mature claret. B+/A-

1971 Canon
This was my ultimate Recession wine. An overlooked vintage, I picked up this year for $25, based on tasting it about 5-6 years ago. Rich red fruit with chocolatey overtones, resolved tannins, fresh. I liked a hair better than the '70. A-/B+

For the finale we had a non-blind 375, the 1976 Zilliken Saarburger Bergschlossen Riesling Beerenauslese. I thought John would be interested to try this, he had done a big article on Zilliken/FG a year or two ago. This is a vineyard that they now use for the Buttefly QbA. Cork broke and I decanted, color darkened quickly. Apricots, honey and caramel. I'm surprised how low-acid it seems compared to other '76 sweet wines I've tried, John says it would be one thing for the Rhine, but very surprising for Saar. This is certainly pleasant, but to me not the stunner I would hope for with the vintage and level. Maybe why it's used un a QbA now! Of course, cork was crumbly, so maybe some air got it. For this bottle, B

Overall, I was very pleased with the showing of the reds. Pretty much any one could have been a centerpiece of a dinner. Only the Trimbach did as well as I hoped with the whites.A fun night with a good group, as always.

Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.
 
Last edited by Dale Williams on Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
no avatar
User

David M. Bueker

Rank

Riesling Guru

Posts

34376

Joined

Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:52 am

Location

Connecticut

Re: WTN: SOBER at my place- Bdx, Burg, Rioja, Alsace, MSR

by David M. Bueker » Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:45 pm

Middling '76 BAs have largely passed it IMO. The Bergschlossen is a middling site that even Zilliken isn't going to raise to exalted levels.

Lovely event though. I see you had Fevre premox problems. It's been killing me, as I bought a lot of 2002 Fevre.
Decisions are made by those who show up
no avatar
User

Rahsaan

Rank

Wild and Crazy Guy

Posts

9236

Joined

Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:20 pm

Location

New York, NY

Re: WTN: SOBER at my place- Bdx, Burg, Rioja, Alsace, MSR

by Rahsaan » Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:00 pm

Dale Williams wrote:1993 Maurice Ecard "Les Narbantons" Savigny-les-Beaune 1er
A little more reticent, but also more layered. Red berry fruit , damp soil, a touch of perfumey spice. Elegant yet with a bit of power. A re-sip at midnight while cleaning up is even better. 


Nice to hear that it showed well. I also found that our bottle last month picked up power with air.

And even better that you apparently bought this for less than $40!
no avatar
User

Michael Malinoski

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

889

Joined

Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:11 pm

Location

Sudbury, MA

Re: WTN: SOBER at my place- Bdx, Burg, Rioja, Alsace, MSR

by Michael Malinoski » Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:18 pm

Dale, great line-up and an enjoyable read--thanks!

I would love to try that LdH '73 Tondonia--will have to get me some of that. Lots of acidity and bright red fruit in that '81 Bosconia, but not surprising that it was at its best around midnight. I think the age and the color make one think that it wouldn't do well with a long decant, but it always (twice!) seems like it does.

-Michael
no avatar
User

Matt Richman

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

623

Joined

Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:16 pm

Location

Brooklyn, NY

Re: WTN: SOBER at my place- Bdx, Burg, Rioja, Alsace, MSR

by Matt Richman » Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:08 pm

You've got quite a few of my favorite wines in there!

My notes on the 73 Tondonia also say "Barolo". Those two Heredia's were my two favorites of our vertical last summer.

Those two Seglas are both excellent. That 86 is really great.

Amazing how closely my past notes from those 4 wines mirror yours.
no avatar
User

Dale Williams

Rank

Compassionate Connoisseur

Posts

11154

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:32 pm

Location

Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)

Re: WTN: SOBER at my place- Bdx, Burg, Rioja, Alsace, MSR

by Dale Williams » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:40 pm

David,
I've got a couple '02 Fevre 1ers, am planning on drinking soon. But see notes below, even on day 2 this wasn't totally premoxed

Rahsaan,
yes this was less than $40. The whites, the Savignys, and the 71 Canon all fit that theme.

Michael.
the '73 Tondonia is good, but for my tastes not as good as either the '81 Tondonia or Bosconia, for less money'

Matt:
I think the previous times I had those RS were both with you. The Barolo comparison is not surprising. The last time I had a LdH blind was the '81 Tondonia at a SOBER at Mark's house, I guessed Piedmont immediately. In retrospect, it's easy. But the combination of red cherry fruit, high acids, earthy notes, a funky old style tilt make the comparison easy.

So last night I just put corks back in bottles (most had about 1/4 bottle left), stored whites in fridge, left reds on (keep house cool). Tonight we had salad plus leftovers, I sampled each bottle that was left before it went to vinegar jar (last night a couple wines were finished, and the Dauvissat went down sink).

Day 2 results:

1985 Trimbach Seigneurs de Ribeaupierre Gewurztraminer.
Shockingly for a 23 old white from a lower acid grape, this hasn't budged in a day.

2002 Fevre "Bougrous" Chablis Grand Cru
No real oxidative notes. More identifiable acid, citrus and apple fruit, still a bit flat and short.

1993 Mongeard-Mugneret "Les Narbantons" Savigny-les-Beaune 1er
This seems a bit tired. Actually, the strange thing is it has picked up a bit of a cola note, that I've seen in CalPN before, but never Burg. Still, a slightly tired but drinkable Cal PN!

1973 Lopez de Heredia Tondonia Gran Reserva
dates and figs, sweet, ok but not as good as last night

1981 Lopez de Heredia Bosconia Gran Reserva
My Wine of Night 2. Packed on the weight, this is one sturdy end of bottle. Red plums, spice, cedar.

1983 Rausan Segla
Shows even softer than night one, redder fruit, still quite drinkable

1970 La Mission Haut Brion
Wow, what a s$%^load of sediment. A bit pruney, but still tasty.

1970 Canon
Still has that minty edge, fruit has actually sweetened and deepened. Lovely

1971 Canon
Now this has a little of the (pleasant) herbal thing that the '70 has, fruit has lost some of its zing, but I could happily drink this.

Pretty good showing from all these old warriors!
no avatar
User

Matt Richman

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

623

Joined

Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:16 pm

Location

Brooklyn, NY

Re: WTN: SOBER at my place- Bdx, Burg, Rioja, Alsace, MSR

by Matt Richman » Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:21 am

Interesting, I had the 81 Bosconia last spring and I felt it was falling apart by the end of the evening.

I probably served you some RS, as I have brought some to offlines recently. Although not the 86. Wish I owned that.

Also, I was not in love with the 81 Tondonia. I felt the Bosconia was a clear winner (based on one head to head tasting).
no avatar
User

AlexR

Rank

Wine guru

Posts

806

Joined

Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:28 am

Location

Bordeaux

Re: WTN: SOBER at my place- Bdx, Burg, Rioja, Alsace, MSR

by AlexR » Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:44 am

Dale,

86 Rauzan Ségla was one of the shining stars of our 86 tasting (21 wines) two weeks ago.
It's really lovely...

FWIW, the most popular wine that night was Mouton.

Margaux and Lafite were not far behind.

The story might be different for the 1sts in 15/20 years.

Alex
no avatar
User

Dale Williams

Rank

Compassionate Connoisseur

Posts

11154

Joined

Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:32 pm

Location

Dobbs Ferry, NY (NYC metro)

Re: WTN: SOBER at my place- Bdx, Burg, Rioja, Alsace, MSR

by Dale Williams » Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:38 pm

Matt Richman wrote:I probably served you some RS, as I have brought some to offlines recently. Although not the 86. Wish I owned that.).


I've got another (bought after the Orchard tasting). I'm saving it for next unthemed dinner with you.

Also, I was not in love with the 81 Tondonia. I felt the Bosconia was a clear winner (based on one head to head tasting).


I really loved it last year (but it wasn't head to head with the Bosconia):
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10640&p=85586&hilit=1981+tondonia#p85586

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AhrefsBot, ClaudeBot and 4 guests

Powered by phpBB ® | phpBB3 Style by KomiDesign