Wine and Spirits Education Trust

A Call for Reform: WSET and the International Wine Center
Its time to legalize sommelier credentials!

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Oct 25, 2008 – New York, NY

We are calling on the International Wine Center to stop issuing WSET certificates and diplomas temporarily.

The International Wine Center in New York City runs the WSET (Wine and Spirits Education Trust) programs. They claim this is a program that will train you to be a wine professional.

The International Wine Center is currently not certified to run a school for sommeliers or wine professionals. We are asking they conform to New York state laws* before any more certificates or diplomas are issued.

Furthermore, Wine professionals and business owners must be warned that a WSET diploma or certificate is not currently recognized as a professional certificate and cannot be used to gain employment in the food or wine industries.

*The IWC/WSET have violated the following NY laws & regulations by claiming they offer professional training for the food & wine industries:
New York Laws: Education : (5001 - 5010) Private Trade And Correspondence Schools

"Schools required to be licensed or registered. No private school or computer training
facility which charges tuition or fees for instruction and which is not exempted hereunder shall be operated by any person or persons, firm, corporation, or private organization for the purpose of teaching or giving instruction in any subject or subjects, unless it is licensed or registered by the department. "

See also:
Section 126.10 of the New York State Eductation Department Regulations

http://www.prlog.org/10133095-call-for- ... enter.html

This press release was issued by the 'Center for WSET Reform', according to that link. What the heck is that and who is behind this group? Anyone know? It looks to me like it's someone trying to protect their territory by keeping out the other folks.

It looks to me like it's someone trying to protect their territory by keeping out the other folks.

Quite.

If the school is breaking state regulations, sure, it should get registered.

But I do not accept all that stuff about whether the qualifications are "valid" or not. Are they really suggesting that sommeliers and wine professionals (whatever a "wine professional" is) need a "recognized" certificate to do their job? Recognised by whom? And for what purpose? It's not like they are doctors or engineers (or cooks even) with responsibility for the lives of others! Employers can judge for themselves the validity of qualifications and skills offered. In the case of the WSET, they can go to the organisation's website that clearly explains each level in their certification programme.

WSET doesn't offer any sommelier courses.

Whether a NY company offering the wine training needs to be licensed in the state of NY is a matter for the NY authorities, but anyone with a WSET certificate certainly has a internationally respected professional qualification.

This press release was issued by the 'Center for WSET Reform', according to that link. What the heck is that and who is behind this group? Anyone know? It looks to me like it's someone trying to protect their territory by keeping out the other folks.

Seems certain to me that our new member KarlW is the group. He's been posting all over the web on this subject. At least here on WLDG he has avoided some of the libellous statements he's made elsewhere

Peter, yes, that's it exactly. The WSET is world-wide respected and recognized. And they never use the word 'sommelier'. The idea is a 'wine professional' with an emphasis on the business aspects as opposed to an sommelier service-orientation. So, I am having a hard time understanding the beef here. Though, yes, I suppose there is always a beef to be had by someone about something. And here with these folks, I guess, it's the WSET. cheers, Bonnie

Agreed in full that WSET is both internationally accepted and respected for their courses at any of the levels. Almost prerequisite for MW degree and demanding of respect for those who have completed the various levels.

Why the objections? Perhaps because neither WSET nor the MW have ever tried to form a closed "guild". And there are those who would like such guilds closed and "protected from the masses" . Or, on the other hand, to start their own little guilds.

Agreed in full that WSET is both internationally accepted and respected for their courses at any of the levels. Almost prerequisite for MW degree and demanding of respect for those who have completed the various levels.

I agree with you on the value of the WSET programs. This is why the IWC/WSET needs to become a legit school. Its very upsetting to discover that one spent thousands of dollars on professional certification only to find that it is completely useless from a legal standpoint. For instance, if you list a WSET certificate on your resume, an employer can fire you outright for including false information on your application. You have no legal recourse because no legal body recognizes the WSET as a legitimate certification. That is very serious, and I am sure there are many more problems that will surface in the coming months. All the IWC/WSET has to do is file the proper paperwork with NY, which is something the ISG (International Sommelier Guild) did years ago.

Karl, Hello....


I wonder if we are not too often overly concerned with that bureaucratic trap called "certification". Those listing a WSET credential on their resumes are not claiming that they have earned degrees from "recognized" schools of higher education. They are simply stating that they attained a certain level of knowledge as certified by a world-recognized group.

I can personally assure you that it carried a good deal of weight when it is known that an individual has attained a certain level within WSET. I have in the past and will continue in the future to recommend the WSET program to many who want to enter professionally enter the wine trade in many ways as well as even to wine amateurs (used in the French sense as "lovers") who wish to expand their knowledge.

Going a step further, I believe you will find many university graduates who have first degrees in oenology from respected institutions go on to undertake the WSET program.

Let us now be so concerned with "certificiation" that we throw the baby away with the bath water.

Best
Rogov

Rogov, I suppose the concern is that those bureaucracatic and legal niceties can be used by people to achieve their unrelated goals. It sounds bizarre to me that I could be sacked for giving false information if I honestly claim I have a WSET certificate (of course it would be different if I simultaneously claimed that it qualified me as a sommelier or software engineer or whatever), but I know little about US federal and state laws - I suppose they were intended to stop scammers selling degrees for "life experience".

[David M. Bueker]

Yawn...might I ask what the good folks of the WLDG are supposed to do about this?

I actually thought this might be an interesting thread about taking the courses (which I have thought of doing - but after seeing some of the material decided against as there was too much in it I did not care about).

For instance, if you list a WSET certificate on your resume, an employer can fire you outright for including false information on your application. You have no legal recourse because no legal body recognizes the WSET as a legitimate certification. .

Nonsense. If you have a WSET certificate then it is recognised worldwide as a professional certification.

You are confusing two things: the WSET and the organisation that delivers its courses in NY.

You seem to have some axe to grind, but I don't understand why you are doing it here, or all over the web.

If you have a legitimate complaint go to the IWC and the relevent authorities.

I would echo Peter's comments.

I seriously doubt that anyone would be deprived of a job or in any way castigated by having the WSET certification (certifying they have successfully completed a series of courses led by an approved entity/instructor in wine, and under the auspices of the very well established and highly respected organization...and organization, I hasten to add, that is regarded as a trade training organization in the UK/EU.

My only 'beef' with the WSET is that, by their very nature and by what they espouse in their educational materials, they are Euro-centric, and do not dedicate time, instruction, and material emphasis on non-European producers or non-European producers, to anything approaching a sufficient level.

But I understand that, so it's not really a problem for me.

I am part of the Society of WIne Educators, and am heavily involved in the Society's education and certification programs (in part because they are more globally oriented, while at the same time being more accessible to Americans). As a registered and chartered not-for-profit organization with a mission of advancing wine and spirits education through professional development and certification (with the Certified Specialist of Wine, Certified Specialist of Spirits, and Certified WIne Educator programs currently), we educate, we test, and we offer professional certification. Our certified professionals use their post-nominal identification as part of their titles, and on their resumes.

I also highly respect the WSET/MW program, as well as the MS Program through the Court of Master Sommeliers. I am not as familiar with the requirments of the ISG, so I do not currently endorse them. I hardly think professionals engaging in an either/or spat amongst these professional education organizations is productive. I endorse and promote each of them, depending on what the person wants to achieve and how he/she wants to achieve it. Sometimes (often) it is the SWE, often the MS, sometimes the WSET. Usually, it is a combination of any of the three.

I know the folks at the NY institute. They are fine professionals with exceptionally high levels of knowledge, and they do a very good job of educationg and training under the tenets and strictures of the WSET. I see no reason to criticise them.

In the states, you cannot claim to offer a professional certificate without going through the proper channels, even if the program is as respected as the WSET. State governments dont look kindly on institutions that operate unregulated education programs. In almost every state, its considered a criminal act. WSET credentials could become a liability with all the new "Diploma Mill" legislation being enacted in many places: under these laws, the WSET doesn't look much different than a degree from "The Sam Spade University and Chicken Shack".

All the WSET has to do is file the right paperwork, and this problem would go away. If you are interested, the legal info is being compiled here: http://xrl.us/ovn2v

[David M. Bueker]

Karl - you clearly have an axe to grind that you are not disclosing. Please come clean.

Karl - you clearly have an axe to grind that you are not disclosing. Please come clean.

Sure seems to be the case, huh, David?

I went to the website---interesting that there is no "About Us", and no indication of names attached to or behind this site. I'd be interested to know that, even if I just casually surfed in to the site.

Looks like axe grinding to me. From someone who prefers to primarily stand behind the curtain. Disgruntled customer? ISG cert. holder?

Oh, wait: I don't care!

"...We are calling ..."

We who ? There's always a rub when the WE who is shouting for attention - hides. This is spam, the first post. I'm making book we don't see a reply, a response or a second post here.

" ... In almost every state, its considered a criminal act. ..."

Just wrong. I'm sorry that he seems such as unhappy fellow. However, I am curious as to what statute or tort he suspects would apply such as to effect these claims of illegal self-certfication as "criminal". At worst, compliance with the municipal and state education boards I'm familiar with usually involve a straightforward and simple administrative filing and credentialing process. If it even applies here.

It is with threats of fines and closure of business handled by civil court (not criminal court) that these academies and schools are typically made to comply. The state is amply endowed to handle this effort.

Me thinks he's lost some hidden war already and is just mad as heck, now just striking out rather blindly.

[David M. Bueker]

Well Jeff, he's posted three times, so send your money my way.

Other than that you are dead on - spam, angry spam.

I think the important thing missing from this discussion is the fact that knowledge is knowledge. Whether one receives their training from a book, a sommelier, an enologist, they have learned something. Snobbery is always been an issue in the world of wine, lets let it go. We are adults, we are passionate, but please, enough of this, "My trophy is bigger than yours" attitude. Most of these wine education groups are a bit exclusive anyway. We should focus on being more inclusive, no?

Kerry,

Who would want anyone getting more wine knowledge anyway ? Not anyone here, we're all closed-minded about learning and education. No one learns anything here, ever. And certainly we can't have anyone anywhere giving someone else any unofficlal and unapproved credit for that knowledge too.

So stop reading, immediately. Sign out - all of you. Now. I mean it.

Most of these wine education groups are a bit exclusive anyway.

Kerry, that is not true.

You...anyone...can get involved in any of the wine education groups out there today. They are not "inclusive"

Pay a fee, become a member, join a school...all it takes is the fee (oh, wait, you must want it for free) and the willingness to learn.

Master Sommelier? Sign up and pay their fee, do the work, pass the examinations (thery are pretty rigorous) and you will get that certification.

WSET? Just sign up. You can go to the Wine Institute, if you wish. They give excellent classes. Or to COPIA in Napa, same. Now, the MW level, you do have to get invited to sit for that, but you ace the levels of WSET up to that, and I'll guarantee you'll make the cut.

The ISG gives courses in several parts of the country, and in Canada.

The Society of Wine Educators (of which I am a proud member) runs an excellent Certifies Specialist of Wines program, most of which is self study, as well as a higher level Certified Wine Educator program. Plus, they have a spectacular Online Wine Academy---which is even available to non-members for a minimal fee.

There are places all over the country, at differing levels, where wine education is offered. Community colleges, universities, adult education' plus some good wine schools (Cleveland Wine School, Atlanta Wine School, both very good). In New York, Harriett and Bill Lembeck offer some excellent courses (Harriett edits the Lembeck Guide to Spirits, a seminal resource book). Pat Fegan at the Chicago Wine School. The aformentioned COPIA. The CIA, whether in New York or Napa. The list goes on.

Hell, you can even take several on-line courses.

I don't know of any of these organizations that are in any way elitist or exclusive. They do require that you learn something; and any good certification program would require that you show you've learned something. But that is the only "exclusive" part of them.

[David M. Bueker]

I would argue that it takes two key aspects to be able to effectvily make wine accessible to people who are not familiar with it:

1. Good communication skills
2. Broad understanding of the world of wine - which requires study & practice

Otherwise you're just spouting wine trivia or gibberish which is actually where the snobbery comes in. It does not matter if you can spell the name of the owner of Chateau Margaux (for the record - I can't), but in educating people new to wine it does matter if you can describe the characteristics of a typical wine from the AOC Margaux (not to mention what an AOC is) and why they may or may not like it.

You mean Ments....Mentze....Mentso...Mentzolopo...

You mean Corinne?

I think I'd be a little more stringent than you, David. If anyone reputable was teaching about wine, I'd require a bit more. I'd even expect them to be able to spell the key words of what they are supposed to be knowledgeable about.

But that's in a formal educational setting. Hey, if wine geeks couldn't bloviate about things, and pretend they know more than they do, that would take the fun out of it for most of them.

[David M. Bueker]

You mean Ments....Mentze....Mentso...Mentzolopo...

You mean Corinne?

I think I'd be a little more stringent than you, David. If anyone reputable was teaching about wine, I'd require a bit more. I'd even expect them to be able to spell the key words of what they are supposed to be knowledgeable about.

But that's in a formal educational setting. Hey, if wine geeks couldn't bloviate about things, and pretend they know more than they do, that would take the fun out of it for most of them.

I rest my case you liberal-educated slacker.