WTN: Châteauneuf du Pape 00 horizontal one year more.

In September last year I posted an account of an annual horizontal tasting of several leading Châteauneuf du Pape 2000. The same group under the guidance of Rhône expert Pierre Ghysens looked at the same wines again last night. Overall with one or two exceptions, I enjoyed the wines less than last year and I think that was also the group’s general impression. I was more conscious this time of dark fruit, dry tannins and alcohol on the finish and only one of the wines impressed me by its length. The changes may in part be due natural phases of evolution but also in part to bottle variation which, since the bottles all come from the same professional cellar, must be put down to erratic cork performance. (But NB, for once none of the bottles showed any TCA.)

Clos des Papes once again disappointed having been one of the best performers in earlier years. It was showing even less well this time with its aromas spoiled by hints of oxidization in the form of rancid notes on the nose and prune in the fruit and with drying tannins on the finish; still enjoyable but, if all the bottles are like this, in urgent need of drinking; 14/20 (last year 15/20).
I noted Domaine Bosquet des Papes Chante le Merle VV as promising but closed last year and it had opened up somewhat and was up-front showing some quite full dark fruit but again some drying tannins on the finish with a rather cloying after-taste; 14/20 (last year 15.5/20).
Château Rayas showed the same Pinot like aromas as last year with a lot of cherry, touches of liqueur and tobacco but I found the sweetly charming fruit darker than before with a bitter chocolate element toward the finish giving an impression of less supreme poise and elegance; 16.5/20 (last year 17.5/20 and then my WOTN).
Domaine du Grand Veneur Les Origines showed quite well for the first time in this group’s tastings; there were aromas of dark cherry, mint, raw cigar box and “alcool blanc” (dry colourless fruit brandy); the palate was very up-front with fine rich fruit on entry but it was rapidly followed by considerable mouth-puckering and it tailed off rapidly towards the rear of the palate; still quite youthful in colour and flavour; 15.5/20 (last year 14.5/20).
Domaine de la Mordorée Reine des Bois showed aromas of liqueur like dark fruit with a touch of prune, game, pepper and spice; the palate was up-front but showed good depth, complexity (one of us even found raw meat) and structure with again touches of bitter chocolate towards the finish; again I thought it better last year when I noted a long fragrant after-taste which I did not find last night; fine with potential though; 16/20 (17/20 last year).
Château Beaucastel showed rich red fruit with sweet cherry, and touches of violet and leather and a suave classically shaped palate with good depth and resolved structure but less gamey than the previous and than I noted last year; a forward and charming Beaucastel which will probably develop more complexity with age; 17/20 (17/20 last year).
Domaine Clos du Caillou Les Quartz was back on form after a dip last year. Its nose was quite subdued with floral, mint and liqueur notes but the palate was expressively round, deep and rich with forest floor and chocolate notes, resolved structure and a long floral finish; still lots of mileage in this wine; my WOTN 17.5/20 (last year 15/20).
Domaine de la Janasse Vieilles Vignes showed a lot of sweet cherry and kirsch in its aromas and a velvety palate with sweet fruit and finish and notes of chocolate and liqueur and also interesting touches of salty bacon; 16/5/20 (last year 16.5/20)

Additionally Pierre served an appetizer, Clos du Caillou Côtes du Rhône 2006, which was delicious with spicy ripe fruit and notes of plums, mint and flesh without the depth and complexity of the CdPs; 15.5/20++.

And he reserved a surprise at the end just telling us that it was Syrah. There was full of generous warm fruit with candied touches, ample body and good balance with enough grip. We opined that it was from the South so we were very surprised when Alain Graillot was named; perhaps 2003. No it was Tandem Syrah du Maroc 2006 Domaine Ouled-Thaleb from his Moroccan joint venture; 15/20

Tim -

thank you for posting these. Horizontals are always nice to read, since I get few chances to taste broadly a vintage all at once. What is your 'optimal' time for Chateauneufs? I think Parker gives these too much credence to age with grace. My own window runs from 8-9 years after the vintage to about 12-15 maximum (exception perhaps Beaucastel because of the dominance of other grapes besides the grenache). I find grenache-based wines to have a tendency to fall quickly from adulthood to senility. Interesting you like the Quartz best. You didn't find it too 'new' styled? (I had a brooding 1999 that was way too young for drinking well, but it also didn't have the grace to age well, IMO)
Best,

Mark

Mark, I don't think that 2000 is a vintage built for the long haul and most of these are ready to drink though I feel that, in particular, the Beuacastel, Mordorée, Quartz and perhaps Rayas and Janasse will hold for some time and even improve a little even though it is a real pleasure to drink them right now. Other vintages, judging by a Beaucastel vertical a couple of years ago, are much tougher, particularly 95, 98 and 01. But, yes, I don't think that most Grenache dominated CdP is built for the really long haul and should be on the way down the hatch by its 10th birthday; I had a big disappointment with a bottle of the highly rated Cuvée des Papets 1990 at New Year though I have since seen a favourable TN on the same wine from Mark Lipton.

Re Quartz and clos du Caillou in general, I had never rated it a "must have" on the basis of commercial tastings but this one is an exception. I did not find it especially modern; classically shaped on the palate and no obvious evidence of new oak with excellent length as well as mature fruit and secondary flavours and it just begged to be drunk.

Mark, I don't think that 2000 is a vintage built for the long haul and most of these are ready to drink though I feel that, in particular, the Beuacastel, Mordorée, Quartz and perhaps Rayas and Janasse will hold for some time and even improve a little even though it is a real pleasure to drink them right now. Other vintages, judging by a Beaucastel vertical a couple of years ago, are much tougher, particularly 95, 98 and 01. But, yes, I don't think that most Grenache dominated CdP is built for the really long haul and should be on the way down the hatch by its 10th birthday; I had a big disappointment with a bottle of the highly rated Cuvée des Papets 1990 at New Year though I have since seen a favourable TN on the same wine from Mark Lipton.

You recall aright, Tim. I tend to prefer my CdP a bit older than most. I'm still sitting on a few '89s and '90s, and those that I open show no signs of decline. As for the aging potential of Grenache: it arguably achieves its apotheosis in Rayas, and recent Cellartracker notes indicate that many people find the '89 still youthful and unevolved. To me, the more interesting question is whether Grenache-heavy wines really pick up much bottle bouquet upon aging.

Mark Lipton

You recall aright, Tim. I tend to prefer my CdP a bit older than most.

My quarrel with a bottle of Cuvée des Papets 1990 was more than just one about appropriate ageing; the wine smelled of cheese and had rancid butter notes; there must have been an accident along the way.

However, this and my limited experience, including at the two horizontals, does make me wonder whether CdP is not more vulnerable to bottle/cork variation than, say, Bordeaux.

Two more pieces of anecdotal evidence -

Pierre opened 4 bottles of Clos des Papes 1990 at a dinner a couple of years ago; 1 was superb, 1 corked and 2 mediocre.

I owned two bottles of Rayas of 86 which I consumed in the early 00s; 1 was oxidized and the other superb.

Tim,

Your notes on 2000 Clos des Papes are at odds with most people's (see Cellartracker, for instance).

This makes me think one of two things
- That the wines may not have been properly stored (I'd be even more suspicious if both times you had it, the wine came from the same cellar)
- There is definite bottle variation at this estate

As for the 2nd possibility, I bought some terrible Domaine de Pegau, and have been told that they are not extremely good at consistency i.e. quality control
during bottling.

Best regards,
Alex R.

Tim,

Your notes on 2000 Clos des Papes are at odds with most people's (see Cellartracker, for instance).

This makes me think one of two things
- That the wines may not have been properly stored (I'd be even more suspicious if both times you had it, the wine came from the same cellar)
- There is definite bottle variation at this estate

As for the 2nd possibility, I bought some terrible Domaine de Pegau, and have been told that they are not extremely good at consistency i.e. quality control
during bottling.

Best regards,
Alex R.

I'm hoping that my bottles of Clos des Papes 00 are going to be more like those described on Cellar Tracker than the ones I tasted!!

I think that the poor cellaring can be dismissed as a problem here. All the bottles tasted on Monday came from the temperature controlled cellars of TGVins. Poor quality control of the bottling operation is much more likely.

As to Pegaü, I had a 99 Cuvée Réservée which strained my own, pretty liberal, brett tolerance. Others rave about this wine. I have heard that there are two bottling runs of different quality which the initiated know how to identify.

As to Pegaü, I had a 99 Cuvée Réservée which strained my own, pretty liberal, brett tolerance. Others rave about this wine. I have heard that there are two bottling runs of different quality which the initiated know how to identify.

Well, there are certainly two distinct bottlings, one for the Cuvée Réservée and another for the Cuvée Laurence, but those are distinctly labeled, so I doubt that that's what you had in mind. I have a few of the '99 in the cellar, but haven't cracked one yet. I did have it shortly after release and recall nothing out of the ordinary with it. Brett blooms, though, can occur anywhere in the distribution chain. Is it possible that whoever brings it into Belgium may have a warm warehouse, or are these hand-carried from the domaine?

Mark Lipton

As to Pegaü, I had a 99 Cuvée Réservée which strained my own, pretty liberal, brett tolerance. Others rave about this wine. I have heard that there are two bottling runs of different quality which the initiated know how to identify.

Well, there are certainly two distinct bottlings, one for the Cuvée Réservée and another for the Cuvée Laurence, but those are distinctly labeled, so I doubt that that's what you had in mind. I have a few of the '99 in the cellar, but haven't cracked one yet. I did have it shortly after release and recall nothing out of the ordinary with it. Brett blooms, though, can occur anywhere in the distribution chain. Is it possible that whoever brings it into Belgium may have a warm warehouse, or are these hand-carried from the domaine?

Mark Lipton

Mark-
I seem to recall that in 1999 Pegau actually had two batches/bottling runs of the Reservee. And, "those in the know" claim there are significant differences between the two runs. I don't recall if brett was an issue in one of the batches or not. I think I'll try to locate those long ago discussions and report back.
BP.

OK, just a bit more likely useless info on the 1999 Pegau:

The early/first release supposedly has a lot more shitty stuff going on than the second release.

In the US (unsure about elsewhere) the two releases can be distinquished by the label. The first release has "An estate Bottled Cotes du Rhone Wine" at the top of the label. The second release has "Red Rhone Wine"

Given that my bottles are all first release and I'm very very tolerant of horse heiney, I should enjoy them a lot.

Bill

The original post and these subsequent threads have really helped me to crystalize a few thoughts that have been bothering me. I have had more difficulty understanding (and liking) Grenache-based blends (such as CndP, Gigondas and Vacqueras) in terms of being able to determine when to drink them and then having success in liking the wine, once the cork is finally pulled.

I have been less effective at tasting these wines young (as a group) than probably any other category, yet there are some terrific examples of aged and developed wine which I truly love.

It's as though there's a long dead zone for grenache for me, some state of either "wine muteness" for the bottle or "palate deafness" on my part. I see it primarily in these wines between three and nine years old, usually in bottles from supposed "drink young" style vintages (2004, 2000, 1994, 1985) that it's probably accurate to say there's been a 75% rate of big disappointment for me. Yet, when else do you open a "drink young style" CndP ? Help.

Is this a common experience for anyone else ?

Jeff,

You raise an interesting issue there. I would characterize the three Rhône appellations which you mention as built, in general, for the medium haul (roughly 8 - 12 years). Again, as a generalization, such wines together with long haul wines often show well young for about a year after bottling and then go into a dull phase. One of my most exciting Châteauneuf d P experiences was a barrel sample of Pegaü Réservée 2001; I guess that this wine may be in a much more boring place at present waiting to open up with greater complexity than before in a year or two. The extent of this varies from vintage to vintage and from wine to wine. This horizontal of CdP 2000 was only the second which I attended but those who had been there every year said that few of the wines had been through a really closed period; I think that in a year like 2001 there would have been many more.

If one looks outside these appellations, there are many more Grenache based wines in France which provide delicious young drinking. One example is the Côtes du Rhône 06 from Clos du Caillou which I mention in the WTN. There are quite a few other growers in Cötes du Rhône and CdR Villages, particularly Cairanne and Rasteau, which produce wonderful cuvées for drinking within 2-3 years, 2006 and 2007 are both very good for that, as well as others which are age-worthy for the medium haul. My particularly favourite estates are Oratoire Saint-Martin and Marcel Richaud in Cairanne and Réméjeanne the other side of the river. Outside the Rhône valley there are delicious Grenache dominated cuvées in Languedoc and Roussillon, particularly in the latter, where I am a big fan of Gérard Gauby, whose Calcinaires is excellent young but also contains a lot of Carignan and Mourvèdre. Outside France, I am starting to get into the Garnacha from Spain's Campo de Borja, where I have also found good young drinking.

To address your question whether your's is a common experience, I would say that I have had less disappointments through wines in a dull phase from Southern Rhône and Roussillon than from many other areas, including Bordeaux and Burgundy. However, I never yet had a Châteauneuf du Pape that I would place on my personal Mount Olympus of fabulous wine experiences although Château Rayas 2000 on last year's form and one out two bottles of 1986 were not far off.

Tim,

Thanks for your thoughts.

I agree that few CndP have reached even my Mt McKinley, either. I do see a few Beaucastel ('78, '81, '89, '90) and a lonely Rayas ('83) perched very near the summit though.

My current plan is to not touch a bottle of any Cndp until its tenth birthday, at least. Heck, why push it ? I have plenty of '85s, 89's and '90s to drink now (and they are drinking so well). I stopped buying Cndp after the 2000 vintage, except for Beaucastel's regular bottling. Thanks.

Jeff,

I think that you have more experience of old Châteauneuf du Pape than I do and am glad to learn that you get such pleasure from wines of the 80s. Maybe I am over cautious in suggesting that most CdP is fit only for the medium haul, my main exception to that feeling being Beaucastel.

It is interesting that, like me but with your experience, you don't place any CdP right at the summit of your Mt. McKinley only near it.

Tim,

That is interesting; we both see some great CndP wines but not wines of a lifetime maybe. The only remaining 80's period CndP still cellared here are the stronger examples from the period: Beaucastel, Les Cailloux, Clos du Mont Olivet, Vieux Donjon, Vieux Telegraphe and Clos des Papes. There's some de Cayron in there too, but that Gigondas ages as well as any CndP not named Beaucastel.

I've recognize that I like my wines a bit more feeble than most other folks I know. I'm teased endlessly for decrying "it's a baby" when young wines are poured before their time.

For example, I'm somewhat dreading a special dinner tonight, when some wine buddies are trotting out some of their treasures of Cote Rotie for my birthday. I love their effort but anticipate wines from 1998 - 2001 and I can't think of many examples that will be even near ready-to-taste for my taste. Oh, the sacrifices.

For example, I'm somewhat dreading a special dinner tonight, when some wine buddies are trotting out some of their treasures of Cote Rotie for my birthday. I love their effort but anticipate wines from 1998 - 2001 and I can't think of many examples that will be even near ready-to-taste for my taste. Oh, the sacrifices.

If they are your wine buddies and aware of your tastes, why are they bringing such wines to your party?

That said, while you might prefer them with more age, most of those vintages shouldn't really be 'shutdown', should they? With the exception of perhaps 01? (Depending on wine, of course).

Rashaan,

Well, it's a little tricky and I don't know exactly what is being brought. I know their tastes and cellars.

I have to forgive these guys basically "for they know not what they do". They just got into wine in the past six or seven years, and they think they are bringing the wines from their collection best suited for the event (they are) and insist on providing the evening's vinous elements. And so I will let them. They are all three actually lovers of current Bordeaux and big California Chardonnay. Groan, I've been there myself, long ago. The Bordeaux they own isn't any more ready to drink either, and well, most Chardonnay lost its charm in my eyes long ago.

So they will likely bring wines that I encouraged them to place in their cellars, from the Rhone, because they know that's my interest. And yes, most of these babies will be "shut down".

So my backup plan is in place. Just in case we have nothing else drinking nicely, I already dropped off a pair of bottles at the restaurant, Mastros, here in Westlake Village: 1991 Verset Cornas and 1989 Jaboulet Hermitage La Chapelle. If we need them, they will stand at the ready nearby.

yes, most of these babies will be "shut down".

I guess it depends on tastes but I thought some 98s could show well (Ogier CR is delicious with air), 99s have so much fat that they are seductive anyway, and 00 is soft enough to show well now.

Not that these vintages won't provide much future development, but I would think that they should be a lot more approachable than 01 or 04, for example?

Not that I have the most experience.

1989 Jaboulet Hermitage La Chapelle. If we need them, they will stand at the ready nearby.

I had that one last year and it seemed very tight and shut down! But, I hear there is lots of variation.

Anyway, it sounds like you have nice friends who respect your opinion. So keep stuffing their cellars with the right Rhones and one day it will pay off!!

Rashaan,

It's encouraging that you've had a '98 Ogier that eventually opened up; the '98 C-Rs across the board have been tight like a walnut for me. Just dumber than dumb. The '99s were plumper, but still pretty undeveloped except for Gallet which already is showing well. The La Chapelle is notoriously variable. Some have been terrific, some corked, some dead and spoiled, others mute and slow to open. Hence the Verset as a second backup bottle.

Rashaan,

It's encouraging that you've had a '98 Ogier that eventually opened up; the '98 C-Rs across the board have been tight like a walnut for me. Just dumber than dumb. The '99s were plumper, but still pretty undeveloped...

I can see that.

Have a happy birthday, Jeff, and many happy returns.

I am sure that there will be some wines you like. BTW I agree about 98; most that I have had from Northern Rhône are still quite acidic and unyielding.