WineLovers Discussion Group

<B>Poll: "Threshold of pain" for everyday wine</B>

To clarify what we mean in this week's poll on the Netscape WineLovers Community, "Threshold of pain" is the price level at which a bottle of wine is too expensive for you to feel comfortable for everyday enjoyment, as opposed to a special occasion or celebratory event.

Remember, you don't have to log in to Netscape to vote, although you do have to do so to discuss the topic in a reply. However, after voting, feel free to post a comment in this thread if you prefer.

Netscape Forum poll

Robin,
I know you have to keep up with the Netscape sight, but couldn't you cross-post the poll here? It's just too hard to post over there. That's my rant for the day (all right, maybe for the hour).

In any event, did you consider putting $25 as a category? I voted for $15 but realize now that I frequently pop open bottles in the $15 - $20 without a thought. I'm chaper than many. I'll bet $30 is not out of the realm of possibility for some. I realize this is a QPR crowd, but $15 is probably the new QPR level. Yikes! Chew on that thought for a bit!
Cheers!
James

James Roscoe wrote:I know you have to keep up with the Netscape sight, but couldn't you cross-post the poll here? It's just too hard to post over there. That's my rant for the day (all right, maybe for the hour).

Fair question, and I'll try to give a candid answer: I remain committed to operate a wine forum for Netscape, and given that most of the WLDGers voted against that format, hosting a weekly poll there and publicizing it in the 40,000-circ Wine Advisor is a cheap and easy way to get at least a few hundred visitors and attract some newbies with comments and questions. As a practical matter, note that it's possible to VOTE in a Netscape poll without registering or logging in, whereas voting in a poll in this forum does require registration. Note also that I did cross-post a reference and invited comments over here on this side.

In any event, did you consider putting $25 as a category?

I did, but the Netscape forum front page space is limited, and adding one more line would have put it over the limit available in that "cell." I figured that many QPR jockeys wouldn't go that high, and the combination of "more" and "other" allows plenty of opportunity for outliers to comment.

I voted for $15 but realize now that I frequently pop open bottles in the $15 - $20 without a thought. I'm chaper than many. I'll bet $30 is not out of the realm of possibility for some. I realize this is a QPR crowd, but $15 is probably the new QPR level. Yikes! Chew on that thought for a bit!

No kidding! I thought it over and then voted $20 myself, for similar reasons, although it gets increasingly complicated because, on the one hand, I no longer think of $20 as "special occasion" territory for the reasons you've stated, yet on the other hand I wouldn't be happy about spending $20 <i>every</i> day.

Robin Garr wrote:No kidding! I thought it over and then voted $20 myself, for similar reasons, although it gets increasingly complicated because, on the one hand, I no longer think of $20 as "special occasion" territory for the reasons you've stated, yet on the other hand I wouldn't be happy about spending $20 <i>every</i> day.

Aye, there lies the rub. I too voted for $20, because that is in all probablity my "pain threshhold" as you put it. However, just because opening a bottle that sold for $18.99 is pain free, that doesn't mean that I feel like doing it on a daily basis, so thankfully there are a number of $5-15 bottles that I will cheerfully drink (more Pepiere, anyone?)

Mark Lipton

p.s. That'd make another interesting "cellar inventory" poll: divide up your cellar by price point, normalized to the present of course!

Robin,
I kind of guessed the answer, but figured it was worth giving you a forum to get out there before some real aggravated ranter came out! I appreciate all the issues involved here as well as the work you are doing here.

As to the QPR thing, it's just out of whack these days. I'll be interested to see where it settles down, especially now that we have the third "vintage of the century" in the pipeline. The price increases can't continue. The highend Bordeaux Chateaux tend to lead the way and the rest of the world tries to ride their coattails. No matter how much they all try to deny it. It just doesn't work. I guess that's my second rant of the day. Geez!
Keep up the good work and Cheers!
James

For me, "pain" depends on whether I "buy" my wine from a store or from my cellar.

If we already own a wine, we are indifferent to the original or current price -- as a practical matter we consider them all dollar wines.

If we buy wine for dinner, I think hard at anything above $20, and even harder at anything under $10 -- it's so hard to find real QPR wines.

Regards, Bob

As much as I have never been focused on QPR, I do find my threshold of pain coming down these days.

Indeed I have been happiest in acquiring things like Pepiere Muscadet (around $12) and Brun Beaujolais (similar price). I'm pretty much through with Zin because it was never anything but a daily wine for me, and it has passed $25 for things I like (e.g. Ridge). 2002 Baumard Savennieres under $20 was another highlight of my recent buying.

While I am not as hot on 2005 Germans as some, I have found a number of under $15 wines that I like, so cheers to that!

David,
Where can we find the list of 2005 Germans to look for? Any hints for the Riesling challenged? Quite frankly, I go to Alsace b/c I find it more reliable. My collective ancestors must be spinning in their collective graves! (Being Bavarians, thay probably do that anyway.)
Cheers!
James

My comments are similar to David's. I've been trying to concentrate on spending less for every day wines and more for better wines (a philosophy that Mr. Perry has been pushing for some time). So for every day stuff it's been Pepiere, Brun, Taurino Salice, Kesseler Estate QbA, Clos La Coutale, all at $9-12. The majority of purchases over the past 4 months have been either under $18 or over $50/btl.
That said, I have little trouble opening most any wine (regardless of cost)on any given occasion as life is just too damned short to worry about squirreling for the right moment.

Thanks for the under $12 list Bill -- I'll add them to my "daily" list. :-)

I love your thinking on "special occasion wines.

Regards, Bob

Interesting
I don't see it anywhere near a definite cut off for casual drinking at home, possibly because we often get two nights worth of the same wine (and if we do manage to drink a whole bottle in an evening, then we've obviously really enjoyed it ).

I also enjoy sharing a really good wine with people who love wine, as I get almost as much out of a glass of fine wine as I do out of a bottle. To share enjoyment with others really justifies digging out nice bottles.

I see a cut off of about £8-10 for a wine to take to (say) a party, where we may only get a glass each, or may not even get to taste it. I'd feel unhappy if someone skulled a £15 bottle I'd brought along, but only mildy frustrated if it was a £10 bottle. More importantly, I'm always keen to try new wines, so ones we've had a few times tend to become the "quaffers", rather than a straight price equation.

Apart from that, there's more of a cut-off of about £25-30, where the purchase requires a positive decision to splash out. Average cost of wine we drink these days is about £15, so it's pretty easy to dig out good wine most times we fancy one.

All this is currently supported by wine being a bottle (or two at most) a week habit for us. If it were 4 bottles or more a week, I suspect these price thresholds would halve.

regards

Ian

p.s. Not sure of exchange rate, but broadly I would have thought doubling pounds gives a reasonable approx of dollars?

Bob Ross wrote:I'll add them to my "daily" list.

What else might you have on that list, Bob?

If $5 is your threshold for pain you are drinking for the alcohol not for the wine. OK, now I can hear about all the great $5 wines. I voted $20 as there seems to be a bunch of stuff in the $12-18 range that I consider excellent, many from Burgundy and South.
Walt

Once again, Finland is a tough place to be. Due to our pathetic monopoly, I have years ago already tasted the cheap wines available here (the labels never change, vintages only do): 99% is crap. And considering how few wines are altogether available, it means we have 4 QPR wines that I will willingly drink. I quickly tire of those even though they are nice QPR wines. Hence I will go up to 30 euros for wines that I'll open for no other reason than that I want wine. Of course being a student and on limited funds, this means that I'm not drinking wine as much or as often as I should be. (Thank God for tastings I get invited to....) Also I'm thankful for the internet from which a couple times a year (when in the rare instance I am temporarily in funds) I can order a case or two from abroad.

I've just recently posted on two whites both of which (though esp the 96) I would consider the best QPR ever: Biffar'd Deidesheimer Grainhübel Riesling Spätlese Trockens from the Pfalz. I payed £8 / bottle, but the wine inside was spellbinding. If I had such a selection as England had, these are the wines I would be drinking - rarely would I go above £15. Unfortunately for my wallet, I am forced to if I want something genuinely nice.

I could post a list of my 2005 best buys from Germany. I'll need a little time to do that, and most won't be in the USA until fall, but I can post it.

"What else might you have on that list, Bob?"

Who, not what, Bill.

When I'm buying wine to drink immediately -- in the next week or less -- I almost always ask the retailer what they would recommend under my price point -- somewhere between $15 and $20.

If they don't have a recco, I've got a little mental list of importers I like.

And, in case neither of these approaches are promising, I've got a list of people and wines they suggest. Six people are now on that list.

As you can tell, I have no character. Variety, that's the name of my game. :-)

Regards, Bob

Post the lists! Post the lists!

James Roscoe wrote:Post the lists! Post the lists!

Here's some of the value wines I really liked at the Terry Theise portfolio tasting. Please note that most of these will not be available until September/October, although a few may sneak in during the summer. All are 2005, so I will not write the vintage for each one.

Reuscher-Haart Piesporter Goldtropfchen Riesling Kabinett
Jakoby-Mathy Riesling 'Balance'
Schmitt-Wagner Longuicher Maximiner Herrenberg Riesling Kabinett
Strub Niersteiner Riesling Kabinett (liter bottling)
Strub Niersteiner Bruckchen Riesling Kabinett
Strub Niersteiner Orbel Riesling Kabinett
Gysler Weinheimer Holle Silvaner Halbtrocken (liter bottling)
Gysler Weinheimer Holle Scheurebe Halbtrocken (liter bottling)
Kruger-Rumpf Munsterer Rheinberg Riesling Kabinett
Leitz Rudesheimer Klosterlay Riesling Kabinett
Darting Durkheimer Fronhof Riesling Kabinett Trocken
Darting Durkheimer Steinberg Muskateller Kabinett Trocken
Darting Durkheimer Nonnengarten Riesling Kabinett (liter bottling)
Darting Durkheimer Hochbenn Riesling Kabinett

That oughta hold ya, dry or sweet.

David,
This list goes to the save file. You are "the man". Now the $64K question. I like the Alsation Rieslings. Which ones are going to best fit my profile? Should I scrap my profile and just drink these wines and appreciate them for what they are?
Cheers!
James

James Roscoe wrote:David,
This list goes to the save file. You are "the man". Now the $64K question. I like the Alsation Rieslings. Which ones are going to best fit my profile? Should I scrap my profile and just drink these wines and appreciate them for what they are?
Cheers!
James

None of these will be the same full bodied style. Why don't you just go into this expecting somthing different and totally refreshing and see how it goes. It can't cost you much.

... the price level at which a bottle of wine is too expensive for you to feel comfortable for everyday enjoyment ...

No limit -- whatever strikes my fancy that day, be it $15 or $115 dollars. None of us are guaranteed tomorrow -- enjoy today.

Randy Buckner wrote:No limit -- whatever strikes my fancy that day, be it $15 or $115 dollars. None of us are guaranteed tomorrow -- enjoy today.

Not a bad philosophy when it comes to this kind of thing

Randy said:

No limit -- whatever strikes my fancy that day, be it $15 or $115 dollars. None of us are guaranteed tomorrow -- enjoy today.

Amen, Randy, that's where we are. Fortunately we like wines at all price levels. But the wines we don't open? We don't because they're not right with the food we're serving or because we're saving them for a particular friend or event or because they're not ready to drink yet. But because of price? No, not any more.

Jenise wrote:Randy said:

No limit -- whatever strikes my fancy that day, be it $15 or $115 dollars. None of us are guaranteed tomorrow -- enjoy today.

Amen, Randy, that's where we are. Fortunately we like wines at all price levels. But the wines we don't open? We don't because they're not right with the food we're serving or because we're saving them for a particular friend or event or because they're not ready to drink yet. But because of price? No, not any more.

Now that's not really how I was answering the question. I did it more in the vein of purchasing everyday drinkers. As for what actually gets opened, a QPR gem or a cellar treasure, well that depends on the food, the company and the condition (i.e. age) of the wine.

Last night it was the Albalonga that cost $15.99 on release, but tomorrow it could be Monte Bello if I happen to grill a steak.