Re: 'Cooked' Wine
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:27 am
To be clear, though, not all Madeira is 'cooked' and not all Sherry is oxidised (eg Fino and Manzanilla styles).
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Oliver McCrum wrote:To be clear, though, not all Madeira is 'cooked' and not all Sherry is oxidised (eg Fino and Manzanilla styles).
Oliver McCrum wrote:I'm being a bit pedantic, but I understand that the best Madeira is not aged in 'estufagem.'
Steve Slatcher wrote:Oliver McCrum wrote:I'm being a bit pedantic, but I understand that the best Madeira is not aged in 'estufagem.'
It isn't. Estufagem is meant to imitate the more traditional method of aging for many years in a loft (heated by the sub-tropical sun, and definitely not a cool cellar). IIRC estufagem involves higher temperatures, and certainly shorter times, but the traditional treatment would still be "cooking" by most people's definition.
Note also that caramel is actually added to some of the less expensive wines, for colouring and sweetness. That is not just for the very cheap end of the market - it varies from shipper to shipper. Don't think it happens at the top end - Colheita and Garrafeira for example.
Fino sherry is an interesting one. I agree that it is not (or shouldn't be!) oxidised, but it is still distinctively sherry-flavoured in a sense that I associate with oxidation in other wines. I haven''t yet managed to get that one straight in my own head - might just be a learning issue for me.
Victorwine wrote:At one time basically all Sherries started off its life basically in the same way. For its first 10 to 14 days it undergoes a primary alcoholic fermentation, next a secondary alcoholic fermentation until “dry”. After this it was than “fortified” and placed 4/5 full in oak casks. I think it was the growth and development of the flora yeast which determined which type of Sherry was to be made. For Fino Sherries the flora yeast grows and develops fairly quickly and shields the wine from further oxidation.
Victorwine wrote:I always thought Estufagem was the “process” in which Madeira is made and estufa was the heated rooms or tanks.
Steve Slatcher wrote:Victorwine wrote:I always thought Estufagem was the “process” in which Madeira is made and estufa was the heated rooms or tanks.
Estufagem is indeed the process that goes on in the estufa, if that is what you meant. But not all Madeira goes though this process of artificial heating.
Also just found a webpage saying that the temps used in estufagem are likely to caramellise sugars - seemingly also implying that the traditional ageing process does not do this.
Steve Slatcher wrote:Oliver McCrum wrote:I'm being a bit pedantic, but I understand that the best Madeira is not aged in 'estufagem.'
It isn't. Estufagem is meant to imitate the more traditional method of aging for many years in a loft (heated by the sub-tropical sun, and definitely not a cool cellar). IIRC estufagem involves higher temperatures, and certainly shorter times, but the traditional treatment would still be "cooking" by most people's definition.
Note also that caramel is actually added to some of the less expensive wines, for colouring and sweetness. That is not just for the very cheap end of the market - it varies from shipper to shipper. Don't think it happens at the top end - Colheita and Garrafeira for example.
Fino sherry is an interesting one. I agree that it is not (or shouldn't be!) oxidised, but it is still distinctively sherry-flavoured in a sense that I associate with oxidation in other wines. I haven''t yet managed to get that one straight in my own head - might just be a learning issue for me.