Cheap wine

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Cheap wine

Postby Suzie Q » Wed May 31, 2006 9:10 pm

I've been reading for a while and noticed all the classy wines you drink. I think your budgets are way above mine. So is there a place where we can make tasting notes about wine under $20?

Over the years I have tasted many wonderful wines in the 'everyday' price bracket, and these are the ones I love to bring to my customers. WHile I may occasionally sell an outstanding vintage classic, most of the people I deal with are searching for something they can serve to a small dinner party. They are not in the $100+ price bracket.

Thoughts.
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Re: Cheap wine

Postby Bob Henrick » Wed May 31, 2006 9:28 pm

Suzie, I too am not in the $100 bracket, as most here are not. Of late I have been enjoying the Trapiche (Argentina) $7 chardonnay. it sees only old oak and stainless steel so no smoky aromas. At the price hard to beat. Also, I have found a New Zealand sauvugnon blanc called The Crossings for $9 a must buy at that price.
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Re: Cheap wine

Postby Suzie Q » Wed May 31, 2006 10:17 pm

Bob, if you are buying Crossings SB at $9 I am moving to your part of the country.

I am getting immense pleasure from an Aussie blend (Rutherglen Marsanne/Viognier) in the $12 price range.

I appreciate fine wine, but I would hate to see every day wine passed over because it didn't pass the geek test.

Afterall, isn't an appreciation of wine something that needs to be spread to the masses? And the masses can't all afford Ch. Petrus.

I'm not trying to stir anything up. I just work with a guy who is a total wine snob, and refuses to acknowledge anything under $20. I find that rather sad.
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Re: Cheap wine

Postby Bill Buitenhuys » Wed May 31, 2006 10:53 pm

Suzie, there are lots of wines discussed here under $20. Just reading through the first page or two of posts there are a few rose', some muscadet (typically around $10-15), a couple of QbA riesling, some beaujolais, and some interesting fun sparklers like Bugey de Cerdon. Even the ruche' I had the other night was under $20. Many of them seem to be fun and interesting (geek worth?) wines.
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Re: Cheap wine

Postby Sam Platt » Wed May 31, 2006 11:02 pm

Suzie, only about 5% of the wines that I drink cost more than $20. Chateau de Lachaize Beaujolais at $12, Argyle Pinot at $15 and "Dr. L" Riesling at $12 are essentially my house wines at present. At the local wine mart my first stop is always at the cut-out bin. I have a total of approximately fifty bottles of age worthy wines, that I have accumulated over the past four years, in storage. For my part I drool over Francois' "old wine" notes with the certainty that I shall never be able to afford any of them. Lots of notes for wines priced at less than $20 are posted here. Check out "Florida Jim" and others for great notes on inexpensive wines.
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Re: Cheap wine

Postby Robin Garr » Wed May 31, 2006 11:43 pm

Suzie Q wrote:I think your budgets are way above mine. So is there a place where we can make tasting notes about wine under $20?


Suzie, I'm also a little surprised that you read it that way. We do have folks here who post on wines at all price levels, but I would have said that this forum - mirroring the long-standing philosophy on my WineLoversPage.com - is very much focused on wines of good quality-price ratio, with the lion's share of those below $20. Certainly the wines I feature in The 30 Second Wine Advisor (which I always cross-post to the forums) are very rarely over $20, because readers seem to want it that way.

Take a closer look ... and if you're comfortable doing so, help us prime the pump by posting your own comments on affordable wines!
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Re: Cheap wine

Postby Randy Buckner » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:17 am

I'm not trying to stir anything up. I just work with a guy who is a total wine snob, and refuses to acknowledge anything under $20. I find that rather sad.


I wouldn't lose sleep over those types of people. It is hard to find a New Zealand SB that costs $20, and they are certainly world class IMHO. We drink a ton in the $12-14 range.

We all like to hear about good QPR wines. Speak up! No snobs here except Garr -- only drinks Petrus and DRC.
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Re: Cheap wine

Postby OW Holmes » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:26 am

Cheap wine - that's mostly what I drink. I guess when I post a TN it tends to be my weekend or special occasion wines, but five of every 6 wines I drink were, when purchased, less than 20 bucks. And a goodly portion are under $12. I love finding an exciting wine that costs 8 or 10 dollars. And that's what Robin's page has always been about. But I guess we all tend to write about the truly exciting wines, and truth be told, it is pretty hard to find a truly exciting $11.99 wine. Some interesting wines, some fun wines, but not too many exciting wines at that range.
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Re: Cheap wine

Postby Suzie Q » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:35 am

But isn't fun what it's all about?

I love to try something exceptional that I know will rarely cross my path. But I love wine. And I want to share that experience with a cross-section of people from all walks of life.

I am excited when I try a vintage Bdx that I know I cannot drink every day. It's humbling to experience the art. But I want to share my knowledge with everybody so that they can experience their own little piece of paradise, knowing that it does not have to cost an arm and a leg.

I guess what I am trying to explain is that I would hate for the elitism to supercede the sheer enjoyment.

I want everybody to be able to experience the pleasure, no mater how niaive that pleasure may be.
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Re: Cheap wine

Postby ClarkDGigHbr » Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:53 am

I avoid cheap wine, i.e. wine that is cheapened by the winemakers complete disregard for quality. Fred Franzia's Charles Shaw line of swill is the poster child for this.

Like many others in this Forum, I love to find good wines that are great buys. I drink them often and frequently give them away as gifts.

Although I periodiclaly like to report that I enjoyed a very expensive bottle of wine (particularly if someone else supplied it :wink: ), I more often share my opinions on some of the good quality, value priced wines I've tasted recently. In fact, tonight I opened a 2003 Ch. Jouclary Cabardes, a lovely red table wine I bought for $9. Good stuff ... check it out.

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Re: Cheap wine

Postby Arnt Egil Nordlien » Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:33 am

Suzie Q wrote:I've been reading for a while and noticed all the classy wines you drink.


Ok, time for actual statistics. I have overlooked the wines I have TN'ed on this site during may. It is a total of 23 wines. Of these 23 wines I believe 12 would be within $20. These are:

Vin de Savoie Chignin (blanc) vieilles vignes 2005, Andre et Michel Quenard
Roussette de Savoie 2005, Andre et Michel Quenard
Vin de Savoie Chignin Mondeuse vieilles vignes 2005, Andre et Michel Quenard
Freisa La Selva di Moirano 1993, Scarpa
Il Mimo 2005, Cantalupo
Schilcher Klassik 2005, Langmann vulgo Lex
Schilcher Classic 2005, Eduard Oswald
Vinho Verde Sub-regiao de Moncao tinto 2004, Adega de Moncao
Moscato d'Asti 2005, Paolo Saracco
Wehlener Sonnenuhr riesling kabinett 2001, Dr.Loosen
Oberhäuser Leistenberg riesling kabinett 2004, Dönnhoff
Periquita classico 1992, Fonseca


The wines above $20 where these. Some just above $20 and none above $50.

Herederos de Argüeso Amontillado
Vino Monsecco riserva speciale 1970, Le Colline
Grauburgunder -S- 2004, Dönnhoff
Riesling vom Stein Smaragd 1988, Nikolaihof
Steiner Hund riesling spätlese reserve 1991, Nikolaihof
Riesling Im Weingebirge Smaragd 1992, Nikolaihof
Riesling vom Stein Federspiel 1993, Nikolaihof
Schilchersekt brut, Langmann vulgo Lex
Kaseler Kehrnagel riesling auslese 1989, Reichsgraf von Kesselstatt
Schloßböckelheimer Kupfergrube riesling spätlese 2004, Dönnhoff
Champagne cuvee Prestige grand cru blanc de blancs brut 1996, Bonnaire


So I think that we can conclude that this is a place to read if you want wines under $20. I even believe there are some geeky wines there in the within $20-range. Most wines I consider geeky are the ones not too many people know about and therefore also they are not the most expensive.
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Re: Cheap wine

Postby Sam Platt » Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:22 am

Suzie Q wrote:I guess what I am trying to explain is that I would hate for the elitism to supercede the sheer enjoyment.


Suzie, if there is a pro-elitism faction on this board I don't know who it would be. I started out on a wine board (rhymes with "Me-Snob") that was, in my opinion, somewhat elitist and intolerant of newbies. I have never found that to be the case here. Most of us would be very happy to read your notes on inexpensive wines. Just tell your snobby co-worker to put a cork it - pun intended.
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Re: Cheap wine

Postby Sam Platt » Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:41 am

PS: In the last four weeks we have purchased twenty-three bottles of wine not one of which has cost more than $20. The prices ranged from $9 for a Mouton Cadet to $17.50 each for a half-case of Trimbach Gewurz. From the records at hand it looks like I have only purchased eight bottles of wine that cost more than $20 all year, and three of those were a d' Angerville that I got a fantastic buy on. Also, about thirty percent of my wines come from the cut-out bin. I am most definitely a value shopper. I'm guessing that my purchase price range is relatively close to the norm for this board.
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Re: Cheap wine

Postby Redwinger » Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:54 am

Suzie,
Put me down as another poster who "lives" in the sub-$20 range. One thing I try to do on my notes is include the price...especially on recent purchases.
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Re: Cheap wine

Postby Mike Filigenzi » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:55 pm

Suzie Q wrote:But isn't fun what it's all about?

I love to try something exceptional that I know will rarely cross my path. But I love wine. And I want to share that experience with a cross-section of people from all walks of life.

I am excited when I try a vintage Bdx that I know I cannot drink every day. It's humbling to experience the art. But I want to share my knowledge with everybody so that they can experience their own little piece of paradise, knowing that it does not have to cost an arm and a leg.

I guess what I am trying to explain is that I would hate for the elitism to supercede the sheer enjoyment.

I want everybody to be able to experience the pleasure, no mater how niaive that pleasure may be.


All I can say, Suzie, is that you've come to the right place!


Mike

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Re: Cheap wine

Postby JC (NC) » Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:12 pm

Probably most of my purchases do exceed $20 but I have also enjoyed wines for much less. Beaujolais Cru and a Spanish Baroja Rioja Seleccion ($8-$10) come to mind. I found the Baroja to be a fun wine that would be great for a picnic, cookout, party at the beach, etc. Also excited about Wynn's Coonawarra Black Label Cabernet Sauvignon that was selling for $15 per bottle or $11 by the case. Castle Rock, Bogle, Cline and Columbia Crest have some decent wines for under $20. Add to that list Snoqualmie, another Washington State winery that has held the line on reasonable prices.
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Re: Cheap wine

Postby Randy Buckner » Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:13 pm

Add to that list Snoqualmie, another Washington State winery that has held the line on reasonable prices.


Now if they'd only learn to hold the line on oak.
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Re: Cheap wine

Postby James Roscoe » Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:56 pm

I can still find a decent CdR for under $10 and always for under $20. I have even purchased a decent ChdP for under $20! I rarely, if ever will pay more than $20 for a white wine.
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Re: Cheap wine

Postby Mark Lipton » Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:37 pm

Redwinger wrote:Suzie,
Put me down as another poster who "lives" in the sub-$20 range. One thing I try to do on my notes is include the price...especially on recent purchases.
BP


Mind telling me where you got that '98 Jamet Cote-Rotie for under $20, rw? :wink:

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p.s. I just purchased some '05 Bordeaux for under $20/bottle, but the down side is I won't see it until '08 :cry:
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Re: Cheap wine

Postby Otto » Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:48 pm

Sam Platt wrote:
Suzie, if there is a pro-elitism faction on this board I don't know who it would be. I started out on a wine board (rhymes with "Me-Snob") that was, in my opinion, somewhat elitist and intolerant of newbies. I have never found that to be the case here. Most of us would be very happy to read your notes on inexpensive wines. Just tell your snobby co-worker to put a cork it - pun intended.


I guess I am somewhat guilty of writing mostly about expensive wines. As a student I shouldn't be buying them or attending such expensive tastings, but I can't help myself. But that doesn't mean that I don't enjoy nice cheapies as well - afterall some of my favourite wines are Muscadet and Beaujolais! The reason that I don't post about them often, is that we rarely see them here, so I don't drink enough of them to comment often. The cheap stuff available to me is crap so I rather abstain from buying (and drinking) them and save up the money to buy one more expensive bottle. This is also a good plan for saving my liver. But if we did have Muscadet and Bojo and other interesting cheaper stuff available, I darn well would be posting a lot more on them. But as Alko's purchasers are incompetent morons we unfortunately won't see such stuff.
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Re: Cheap wine

Postby Redwinger » Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:22 pm

Mark Lipton wrote:Mind telling me where you got that '98 Jamet Cote-Rotie for under $20, rw? :wink:

Mark Lipton
p.s. I just purchased some '05 Bordeaux for under $20/bottle, but the down side is I won't see it until '08 :cry:


Mark,
You must have confused the '98 Jamet with a multiple case purchase of 1992 JL Chave Hermitage back 4 or 5 years ago that was secured for $20 a bottle. Sure '92 was a so called off vintage in N. Rhone, but most of those Chavies tasted damn fine.

Were those Pavie futures :D

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Re: Cheap wine

Postby Robin Garr » Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:16 am

Otto Nieminen wrote:I guess I am somewhat guilty of writing mostly about expensive wines. As a student I shouldn't be buying them or attending such expensive tastings, but I can't help myself.


Hey, Otto! Jumping in to make sure this nuance does not go un-addressed: Don't be guilty, don't apologize! Most of us envy the wines you taste at your age. You are the Finnish Joe Perry! :twisted:

If I could sum up my attitude about Suzie's original question, it's this: This forum is a great place to talk about, and post notes on, wines of value, QPR wines, because almost every participant here shares an enthusiasm for affordable wines that spend cheap but taste expensive. Plonk, no. But the thrill of the hunt and the discovery of a great QPR quarry is a big deal here.

But we're also serious wine geeks, most of us, and I can't think of many forumites who don't also share your joy in a great wine, and if we occasionally have to choose between having the dollars/Euros/pounds sterling for a great wine or something like food on the table or a roof over our heads, hey ... nothing succeeds like excess, right?
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Re: Cheap wine

Postby Mark Lipton » Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:50 pm

Redwinger wrote:You must have confused the '98 Jamet with a multiple case purchase of 1992 JL Chave Hermitage back 4 or 5 years ago that was secured for $20 a bottle. Sure '92 was a so called off vintage in N. Rhone, but most of those Chavies tasted damn fine.


Yeah, those "off" vintages can be a real gold wine, especially if they're being crowded off retailers's shelves (and distributors' warehouses) by the next Vintage of the Century™.

Were those Pavie futures :D


Yup. You betcha. No classified growths, only one from a "name" appellation (St.-Em.). That's my formula for avoiding the worst excesses (financial and winemaking) of the area.

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Re: Cheap wine

Postby Bill Spohn » Fri Jun 02, 2006 2:00 pm

Mark Lipton wrote:Yeah, those "off" vintages can be a real gold wine, especially if they're being crowded off retailers's shelves (and distributors' warehouses) by the next Vintage of the Century™.


Howdy, Mark.

I was alternately stumped in blind tastings and stumped others with a small store of 1987 Chave Hermitage. It had the weight and quality of a lesser producer in a better vintage and easily fooled people as they assumed that any northern Rhone from that year would be crapola.

Come to think of it, I have pulled the same thing with some 1987 Bordeaux. It may not have been quite as poor a vintage in Bordeaux, but few wines were notable. I have used the 87 Sociando Mallet to good effect as it isn't readily identifiable as Sociando (not as big as a better vintage would be) but strikes people as better than any 1987 has a right to be.
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