Tastiest within two years of purchase?

Some help would be appreciated.

I am building a modest sized 10-15 case cellar, which I would turnover, based on my present consumption, in about 18 months to two years. I would like to have a selection of both whites and reds, with a preference for wines that would be mature within two years of purchase and are good pairings with food (please notice, I have said within two years of purchase, not vintage year). Tasting notes on this site will provide a nice guide for specific wines, I am looking for guidance on wine areas and grapes to consider for this cellar so that I can focus my research time.

Thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge.

Greg

I would like to have a selection of both whites and reds, with a preference for wines that would be mature within two years of purchase and are good pairings with food

So many ways to go with this request, depending on your stylistic preferences, geographical location, budget, etc. But, the first thing that comes to mind for mature within two years of purchase and good pairing with food is sauvignon blanc, from any country. Fresh, and easy to pair.

But, if you provide some more details, others may be able to provide more detailed advice.

Thanks for your response.

I am not really limited by geographical location but would probably focus on european and american, and say $15-50/bottle. Recently I have been exploring some chablis, barolo and champagne.

The chablis and NV champagne are drinking well now, but the Prunotto Barolo I opened last night (2001), could have used some more time. I am fond of sauvignon blanc, pinot noir, and syrah. I would like to explore Italian wines a bit more so insights there would be great.

Maybe a more direct question would be, for say Boredeaux, how would I discover which wines drink better shortly after release versus requiring extensive bottle aging?

I would like to have options for a wide range of cheeses (from hard, to soft, to blue, to goat etc.), grilled meats, fish, seafood, oysters, tomato and non-tomato based pasta dishes, charcuterie, omlettes, roasted poultry.

Just to reiterate, I know it is too much for specific wine recommendations, so I am looking more for guides to grapes and regions. Pointing me to links, threads or books would also be most welcome. Thanks.

Thanks for your response.

I am not really limited by geographical location but would probably focus on european and american

I was actually talking about your geographic location! Which could help some people here provide suggestions of retailers.

Recently I have been exploring some chablis, barolo and champagne.

Well, I wouldn't go too heavy on Barolo if you want to drink in the next two years. Unless you restrict your purchases to wines from the 1960s and before.

Maybe a more direct question would be, for say Boredeaux, how would I discover which wines drink better shortly after release versus requiring extensive bottle aging?

I'm not a Bordeaux expert. But, one rule of thumb is that the top Bordeaux is usually designed for several decades of aging, so for early drinkers you could do quite well in the lowerends of your price range. But, I think an even better rule of thumb is to find a good retailer and ask him/her these exact questions, concerning the wines they have available.

Greg, for wines you wish to consume over a two year period, I would keep my purchases at or below $20. A wine costing more than that and needing drinking within 2 years is IMO over priced and not one I want to buy. You might be very surprised at how many $20 wines will improve for 5 years or more and perhaps hold even longer.

Thanks all.

My geographic location is Delaware.

18 months to two years?

Take a look at Pinot Grigio or Syrah.


Both very good and very drinkable.

Wow, Greg, with a plan like that you'll miss out on some great wines that require more than 1-2 years to become drinkable. Why not do as I did when in your position and maintain two different collections of wine? One sits down in your cellar and gradually expands while the other sits in your dining room and consists of "ready to drink" wines. Then, you have the luxury of allowing the wines in your cellar to sit 3,5,10 or 20 years, depending on their needs. In fact, we still have one wine (1983 Ch. Margaux) that we purchased back when our "cellar" consisted of two cases of wine (1987).

Just a thought,
Mark Lipton

Greg

If you want a cellar that you can turn over in 2 years, you will need to "prime" it with some older vintages of good wines that will keep, and some current releases of wines that are good to drink in the next couple of years. But plan ahead - also get some current releases of wines that you will need to keep in your cellar for longer than 2 years. That means you will not turn over your complete cellar in the first 2 years, but that could still be achievable in the longer term.

If you want to start turning over your cellar in the first 2 years, and continue like that, you will effectively always be buying older vintages, which is more expensive and takes away the point of your having a cellar - you might as well buy the older vintages from a merchant and drink them right away.

For ideas of maturing times, I'd get a copy of Hugh Johnson's Wine Pocket Book. It's not an exact science, and the information is more presented in the form of what is good to drink now, but it will give you ballpark ideas for different wines.

In the UK the better wine merchants would be more than delighted to advise on this sort of thing and deliver cases at regular intervals to build up and maintain your cellar. Does that apply in the US? That would certainly remove hassle from the process, but personally I think it's more fun to work it out for my self.

[David M. Bueker]

If you are looking for wines to be mature and to cost between $15 and $50 then you might have mutually exclusive goals unless you want to stick to lower tier wines.

If you are looking for wines that are drinking well and between those two prices then there's a whole world of options. German, Alsatian and Austrian Riesling offer tons of potential, as the 2 year mark (from vintage - thus wide availability) is about when some shut down (at least the German ones do), so you would drink them up before they went to sleep. Also have you had mature examples of many wines? Some (e.g. German Riesling) are an acquired taste.

Anyway, to continue to focus on my core area, I would look at the 2005 and 2006 vintages in Germany, and especially the 2006 vintage in Austria which is one of the best in many years. If you are in Delaware you are not too, too far from Canal's Discount Liquors in Hainesport, NJ (exit 40 off I-295) which has a fantastic selection of these wines (and many others) as well as a very friendly and helpful manager (and a good personal friend of mine), Joe Huber. He can help a lot!

My geographic location is Delaware.

My suggestion is go to Moore Brothers -- I think they're in Wilmington (that's assuming you're near Wilmington as opposed to the southern part of the state) -- and ask them these questions. They have an interesting selection of off-the-beaten track wines that I think they import themselves and you should be able to find someone there who can give you good advice about what wines to buy that meet your criteria.

Reiterating what others have said, if your aging window is two years and you like wines like Bordeaux and Barolo, which generally require a decade or more to show their best, you should either buy older vintages of wines, which will cost you more, or buy lower-end bottlings which usually aren't meant to age. In Bordeaux, that could mean generic Bordeaux or appellations like Fronsac, Canon-Fronsac, Cotes de Francs and perhaps some Medocs. In lieu of Barolo, you might look for Nebbiolo d'Alba. Or, depending on your tolerance for tannins and your diet, buy higher-end bottlings, decant them for several hours before drinking, and have them with rare red meat.

Wow, Greg, with a plan like that you'll miss out on some great wines that require more than 1-2 years to become drinkable. Why not do as I did when in your position and maintain two different collections of wine? One sits down in your cellar and gradually expands while the other sits in your dining room and consists of "ready to drink" wines. Then, you have the luxury of allowing the wines in your cellar to sit 3,5,10 or 20 years, depending on their needs. In fact, we still have one wine (1983 Ch. Margaux) that we purchased back when our "cellar" consisted of two cases of wine (1987).

Just a thought,
Mark Lipton

You're points are well taken. Two collections probably do make some sense. Because my focus is on having wine to complement my meals, with neither taking precedence but both combining to create a pleasurable experience, I would like to have enough different bottles to provide flexibility in what I uncork depending on what we are eating for the meal. Maybe 10-15 cases for this need is too much and I could use some of the space to store some more.

But it seems that when you start laying wines down for 5-10 years, you would need a lot of storage space and it would eat up most, if not all, of a 10-15 case cellar. Is that right?

Maybe a more direct question would be, for say Boredeaux, how would I discover which wines drink better shortly after release versus requiring extensive bottle aging?

Hi Greg,

In addition to what others have said, I have two ideas for your consideration.

First, some very respected Bordeaux properties produce notable second wines or alternative wines, such as Alter Ego de Palmer by Château Palmer, Château Bahans Haut-Brion or Clarendelle, also from the property that is Haut-Brion or Pavillon Rouge or Blanc of Château Margaux. These wines are usually expressly produced with much shorter aging profiles. For example, if you can get a bottle of Alter Ego de Palmer 2004, it should be at apogee in a couple of years. If available, it should be under $40.

Second, you may be able to purchase 1997 Bordeaux which could certainly be enjoyed now, yet there may be affordable bottles. If '97 is too expensive or not available, there are people here who can suggest a better, more recent vintage. The vintage idea is true of all types of wines, so you can try to discover the less ageworthy vintages of each.

Hope this helps!

Randy,

Thanks for these thoughts. Looking for some quality wines that are produced with much shorter aging profiles makes a lot of sense. I will start looking for such Bordeauxs. If I may ask another question, what other regions have similar bottlings?

Greg

If you want a cellar that you can turn over in 2 years, you will need to "prime" it with some older vintages of good wines that will keep, and some current releases of wines that are good to drink in the next couple of years. But plan ahead - also get some current releases of wines that you will need to keep in your cellar for longer than 2 years. That means you will not turn over your complete cellar in the first 2 years, but that could still be achievable in the longer term.

If you want to start turning over your cellar in the first 2 years, and continue like that, you will effectively always be buying older vintages, which is more expensive and takes away the point of your having a cellar - you might as well buy the older vintages from a merchant and drink them right away.

For ideas of maturing times, I'd get a copy of Hugh Johnson's Wine Pocket Book. It's not an exact science, and the information is more presented in the form of what is good to drink now, but it will give you ballpark ideas for different wines.

In the UK the better wine merchants would be more than delighted to advise on this sort of thing and deliver cases at regular intervals to build up and maintain your cellar. Does that apply in the US? That would certainly remove hassle from the process, but personally I think it's more fun to work it out for my self.

Steve,

Priming the cellar with some older wines sounds like a good idea. I did have a 2001 Prunotto Barolo this weekend, and while I really enjoyed it, I drank it before its time.

I will pick up a copy of Hugh Johnson's guide as you suggest.

If you are looking for wines to be mature and to cost between $15 and $50 then you might have mutually exclusive goals unless you want to stick to lower tier wines.

If you are looking for wines that are drinking well and between those two prices then there's a whole world of options. German, Alsatian and Austrian Riesling offer tons of potential, as the 2 year mark (from vintage - thus wide availability) is about when some shut down (at least the German ones do), so you would drink them up before they went to sleep. Also have you had mature examples of many wines? Some (e.g. German Riesling) are an acquired taste.

Anyway, to continue to focus on my core area, I would look at the 2005 and 2006 vintages in Germany, and especially the 2006 vintage in Austria which is one of the best in many years. If you are in Delaware you are not too, too far from Canal's Discount Liquors in Hainesport, NJ (exit 40 off I-295) which has a fantastic selection of these wines (and many others) as well as a very friendly and helpful manager (and a good personal friend of mine), Joe Huber. He can help a lot!

Thanks for the tip. Riesling is a wine grape I have been wanting to explore, but have not to any great extent. Your suggestion of Canal's is a good one, as I live in Wilmington DE at the north end of the state. I will check it out.

Thanks again.

If you have a specific recommendation or two to get me started, I would appreciate it.

My geographic location is Delaware.

My suggestion is go to Moore Brothers -- I think they're in Wilmington (that's assuming you're near Wilmington as opposed to the southern part of the state) -- and ask them these questions. They have an interesting selection of off-the-beaten track wines that I think they import themselves and you should be able to find someone there who can give you good advice about what wines to buy that meet your criteria.

Reiterating what others have said, if your aging window is two years and you like wines like Bordeaux and Barolo, which generally require a decade or more to show their best, you should either buy older vintages of wines, which will cost you more, or buy lower-end bottlings which usually aren't meant to age. In Bordeaux, that could mean generic Bordeaux or appellations like Fronsac, Canon-Fronsac, Cotes de Francs and perhaps some Medocs. In lieu of Barolo, you might look for Nebbiolo d'Alba. Or, depending on your tolerance for tannins and your diet, buy higher-end bottlings, decant them for several hours before drinking, and have them with rare red meat.

I do live in Wilmington, near Moore Brothers, so that is an option.

Thanks for the suggestion.

[David M. Bueker]

Thanks for the tip. Riesling is a wine grape I have been wanting to explore, but have not to any great extent. Your suggestion of Canal's is a good one, as I live in Wilmington DE at the north end of the state. I will check it out.

Thanks again.

If you have a specific recommendation or two to get me started, I would appreciate it.

I'm not exactly sure of what Joe has in inventory right now, but he does have lots of 2006 Austrians. Just about anything from Salomon or Schloss Gobelsburg would be great. Try some of their Gruner Veltliner as well as their Rieslings.

As far as Germany, Selbach-Oster is a great starting place for exploring German Riesling. They make fantastic wines across the range.

David,

Thanks. I will seek them out.

Greg

You're points are well taken. Two collections probably do make some sense. Because my focus is on having wine to complement my meals, with neither taking precedence but both combining to create a pleasurable experience, I would like to have enough different bottles to provide flexibility in what I uncork depending on what we are eating for the meal. Maybe 10-15 cases for this need is too much and I could use some of the space to store some more.

Perzackly, Greg. We continue that practice to this day. I probably buy 3 times as many "ready to drink" wines as I do wines to cellar, and 20 years on have about 500 bottles in the cellar. These days, about 50% of our wines with dinner are drawn from the cellar, while the remainder are recent purchases.

But it seems that when you start laying wines down for 5-10 years, you would need a lot of storage space and it would eat up most, if not all, of a 10-15 case cellar. Is that right?

Well, there's the truism that one's wine purchases will always tend to exceed the allotted space. Having said that, though, there is no inherent conflict between aging wines for 5-10 years and having ready-to-drink wines on hand. Here's a workable scenario: you start buying cases of wine in which 2 are for the cellar and the rest are for near term drinking. Given your previous post, you expect to consume about 120-180 bottles per year, so that would mean you'd purchase 12-18 cases in your first year. At the end of year 1, you'd have 2-3 cases for storage. Using the same ratio for the first 5 years, you'd end up with 10-15 cases for storage while still buying 120-180 bottles of ready-to-drink wines per year. Now, however, you start drawing your wines from the cellar, too. So, in year 5 you pull 3 cases of wine from the cellar, and supplement it with 9-15 cases of ready-to-drink wine and 3 cases of wine to replace what you've removed from the cellar. Now, you've reached steady state and can continue that purchase pattern indefinitely.

Of course, such a plan requires discipline and planning, two features that many wine enthusiasts lack. And, since knowing when a wine is "ready" is far from an exact science, there isn't a clear distinction between "ready-to-drink" and wines for aging. A good strategy there is to purchase at least 3 bottles of each wine you intend to cellar so that you can follow its evolution. In the process, you'll also learn far more about those wines than you would have had you just purchased one bottle to lay away.

As for what to put in your cellar, you've already received some good advice. I'll second the recommendation of Hugh Johnson's book, and buying some second labels and "lesser" years from Bordeaux. It's also worth pointing out that older vintages of Bordeaux and Burgundy are often cheaper at auction than current releases are available at retail. Some good years to look for are '85 and '88 from Bordeaux and '88 is from Burgundy. As for Italian wines, you can start by buying Nebbiolo from the Langhe outside of Barolo and Barbaresco and Rosso di Montalcino instead of Brunello. They'll be ready far sooner than the more famous regions and give you a flavor at least of what they'd offer.

Good luck!
Mark Lipton

You're points are well taken. Two collections probably do make some sense. Because my focus is on having wine to complement my meals, with neither taking precedence but both combining to create a pleasurable experience, I would like to have enough different bottles to provide flexibility in what I uncork depending on what we are eating for the meal. Maybe 10-15 cases for this need is too much and I could use some of the space to store some more.

Perzackly, Greg. We continue that practice to this day. I probably buy 3 times as many "ready to drink" wines as I do wines to cellar, and 20 years on have about 500 bottles in the cellar. These days, about 50% of our wines with dinner are drawn from the cellar, while the remainder are recent purchases.

But it seems that when you start laying wines down for 5-10 years, you would need a lot of storage space and it would eat up most, if not all, of a 10-15 case cellar. Is that right?

Well, there's the truism that one's wine purchases will always tend to exceed the allotted space. Having said that, though, there is no inherent conflict between aging wines for 5-10 years and having ready-to-drink wines on hand. Here's a workable scenario: you start buying cases of wine in which 2 are for the cellar and the rest are for near term drinking. Given your previous post, you expect to consume about 120-180 bottles per year, so that would mean you'd purchase 12-18 cases in your first year. At the end of year 1, you'd have 2-3 cases for storage. Using the same ratio for the first 5 years, you'd end up with 10-15 cases for storage while still buying 120-180 bottles of ready-to-drink wines per year. Now, however, you start drawing your wines from the cellar, too. So, in year 5 you pull 3 cases of wine from the cellar, and supplement it with 9-15 cases of ready-to-drink wine and 3 cases of wine to replace what you've removed from the cellar. Now, you've reached steady state and can continue that purchase pattern indefinitely.

Of course, such a plan requires discipline and planning, two features that many wine enthusiasts lack. And, since knowing when a wine is "ready" is far from an exact science, there isn't a clear distinction between "ready-to-drink" and wines for aging. A good strategy there is to purchase at least 3 bottles of each wine you intend to cellar so that you can follow its evolution. In the process, you'll also learn far more about those wines than you would have had you just purchased one bottle to lay away.

As for what to put in your cellar, you've already received some good advice. I'll second the recommendation of Hugh Johnson's book, and buying some second labels and "lesser" years from Bordeaux. It's also worth pointing out that older vintages of Bordeaux and Burgundy are often cheaper at auction than current releases are available at retail. Some good years to look for are '85 and '88 from Bordeaux and '88 is from Burgundy. As for Italian wines, you can start by buying Nebbiolo from the Langhe outside of Barolo and Barbaresco and Rosso di Montalcino instead of Brunello. They'll be ready far sooner than the more famous regions and give you a flavor at least of what they'd offer.

Good luck!
Mark Lipton

Mark,

Thanks for your thoughtful response. I like the idea of reaching "steady state" over time and building a cellar accordingly. Sounds like it is time to do some research on the appropriate Bordeauxs, Nebbiolo from outside of Barolo, Barbaresco and Rosso di Montalcino.

I'm coming late to this and agree with everything Mark writes above. There are tons of wine that are great on release. No reason to hold everything for a couple of years, esp. since many of the best will shut down at that point.

Let me throw out a couple of regions you might like. If you like Baroli and want earlier-maturing, less expensive wines that work a similar theme, try looking for Ghemme, Gattinara, Sella, Carema, or the Crus from the Valtellina; good Aglianico is hard to find, but it too can remind you of a nice Barolo. In addition to satellite appellations around Bordeaux, you might move up to the Loire, where you can find outstanding Cabernet Franc in your price range. They will age for a long time, but I've had good luck with them at five years from the vintage. You might stay in the Loire for some Coteaux de Layon, an often moderately priced sweet wine that will pair with blue cheeses in addition to dessert (I'm not a big fan of wine with dessert). I'm still looking for a substitute for Champagne. If you find one, please let me know!

edited to add: I mised the part about Chablis. Have you explored the Loire?

Thanks for the additional suggestions.

No, I have not explored the Loire, but need to. Any additional thoughts there would be most welcome.

Greg

If you like Chablis, you will love good Muscadet. Marc Ollivier is a genius -- his Clos des Briords tends to run about $12, and the current vintage is ready to go;or you can keep it for twenty years. He's got a recently-released luxury cuvée that runs about $20 that has a Burgundian feel to it (it was aged on the lees for, I believe, about 18 months). I also love the wines of Luneau-Papin. I suspect you would like the Vouvrays of Forreau and the Secs of Domaine Huet. François Cazin makes beautiful spicey, minerally wines from Romorantin. François Chidaine makes great Chenin Blanc in Vouvray and Montlouis, as well as a very nice and affordable sparkling white. I would also hunt down the Sauvignon Blanc of Clos Roche Blanche. If you don't mind a little sweetness, that opens up a whole realm of possibilities in the Loire and elsewhere.

I'm still looking for a substitute for Champagne. If you find one, please let me know!

Pinon's NV sparkling Vouvray? But you knew that already, no?

Mark Lipton