WineLovers Discussion Group

I cannot contain my outrage any longer. I am deeply offended by this post and all its ramifications. This is a clear insult to all gender-conflicted and alternative lifestyle people in the world. Or at least the wine world. Or at least this board.

Where are the slots for transgender people? Don't they get a vote? Don't they have a say in this? Why are we ignoring them as if they don't exist?

What if you're confused or conflicted about your sexual orientation? Shouldn't there, at the very least, be an "I'm not quite sure" or a "I'm a woman trapped in a man's body" or "I can't afford the surgery but I know I'm a woman whether I have a prominent Adam's Apple and excess body hair and a really deep voice or not."

And let's not forget the bi-sexuals either!!! Sure, they're not so much conflicted as they are interested in getting action from both sides (and maybe at the same time!). I mean, that's hot! Just think about... oh, sorry, got a little off track there.

Anyway, you get my point. Where's the outrage?

steve.slatcher wrote:Flies, and doubtless a lot worse, get into the wine even before fermentation. I read that there have been vine infestations so bad that the bugs actually affected the flavour of the finished product. So I see no logic in a 5 or 10 second rule.

Is there a statistician in the house? My stats are a bit rusty now, but from a quick eyeballing of the poll results I'd say there are no significant gender differences.

If you ever had the distinct pleasure of tasting Ontario wines from a few vintages back, during the famous Ladybug infestation, you'd definitely sense the presence of bugs in wine. Every time we'd come across one in competitions it was immediately known---smelled exactly like peanut butter, oddly enough. Not nuanced, mind you, or a mere whiff, but like sticking your nose down into a jar of Jif.

Yep, from first hand experience I can tell you it's amazing sometimes how much insect and animal matter manages to find it's way into the old fermentation vat. Flying and crawling insects, arachnoids of varied types, snakes, field critters, birds...like making sausages: people usually don't want to know.

Oh, Hoke, Robin covered all of your points, and in his usual diplomatic manner:

"Other/Can't answer as stated (discuss)"

[He might have sensitized the "(discuss)" with an additional modifier, e.g. "(discuss (if you choose to do so))", but all PC strictures have been honored here.]

Regards, Bob

Randy R wrote:Hoke, calm down, bisexuals get two votes, obviously.

Oh. Well. That seems...fair.

You ever wonder if bisexuals have arguments with themselves?

Hard to have safe gay friends too.

Bob Ross wrote:Oh, Hoke, Robin covered all of your points, and in his usual diplomatic manner:

"Other/Can't answer as stated (discuss)"

[He might have sensitized the "(discuss)" with an additional modifier, e.g. "(discuss (if you choose to do so))", but all PC strictures have been honored here.]

Regards, Bob

Sorry, Bob. No defense. I think Robin was being prurient here...fishing for details, asking for disclosure, looking for lurid details of private lives. What, you get to vote only if you tell us the icky details??? Whatever happened to "Don't Ask; Don't Tell"??? Maybe Robin isn't the sensitive, caring liberal bleeding heart we all thought he was? Maybe he's really a thinly disguised right wing hate-spewing radio talk show host?

Oh, I have to laugh at myself on this one--because I am usually about as picky as they come; my mother instilled great fear of "germs" in me at a young age. But the honest answer to this particular question is yes--I would, and in fact have, shared my wine with small critters. Good wine is too precious to dump out! However, to date I've only had gnats and fruit flies land in my glass, and I do pick them out. I'm not absolutely certain I'd be as easy-going if it were a housefly or a cockroach (I grew up in Hawaii, and roaches there are HUGE!), but I suspect I might still go with the fishing out approach. And I think, as others said, the actual wine itself would make a difference--I'd be quicker to dump out a glass of a $3.00 bottle of something someone picked up at Trader Joe's as opposed to a precious single vineyard Oregon Pinot Noir or a tasty Turley Zinfandel.
And, yes, I think this question did flush a few of us out of the woodwork (no termite pun intended)--I've been subscribing for years.

Hoke wrote:I cannot contain my outrage any longer. I am deeply offended by this post and all its ramifications. This is a clear insult to all gender-conflicted and alternative lifestyle people in the world. Or at least the wine world. Or at least this board.

Where are the slots for transgender people? Don't they get a vote? Don't they have a say in this? Why are we ignoring them as if they don't exist?

What if you're confused or conflicted about your sexual orientation? Shouldn't there, at the very least, be an "I'm not quite sure" or a "I'm a woman trapped in a man's body" or "I can't afford the surgery but I know I'm a woman whether I have a prominent Adam's Apple and excess body hair and a really deep voice or not."

And let's not forget the bi-sexuals either!!! Sure, they're not so much conflicted as they are interested in getting action from both sides (and maybe at the same time!). I mean, that's hot! Just think about... oh, sorry, got a little off track there.

Anyway, you get my point. Where's the outrage?

That's all well and good, but I don't hear anyone putting the insect's view on the subject. I can only take this as an obvious and callous act of prejudice and one the forum should be ashamed of

Oh, Kristen, you've won my heart!

Your first post ... beautifully written ... interesting ... laughing at yourself ... please stop lurking and share, share, share.

Welcome.

Regards, Bob

"That's all well and good, but I don't hear anyone putting the insect's view on the subject."

Thanks for raising the Buddhist's viewpoint, Ian.

I had ignored that philosophical approach, only because every insect I've found in my wine has already died. [That's what one gets for sipping and dreaming I suppose.]

Of course, if they were still alive, I'd scoop them out and release them into the night air as quickly as possible -- except for 'squiteers and house flies, of course.

But no mouth to mouth ... there's a limit to my inter-species compassion I'm sure.

Regards, Bob

Seriously, I wonder if it does matter if the critter is swimming around or belly up. My practice has been to scoop and toss -- but a living creature?

Maybe I'll catch one and find out soon. B.

"Sorry, Bob. No defense."

As always, Hoke, you have to think about stuff.

Regards, Bob

Cm`on Hoke, get those chardonnay tasting notes out here!!!

I recently cursed at gnat that landed in my wine glass - flicked it out and kept on sipping. I think anything bigger I would not have continued drinking, especially a fly or a roach - way too gross for me!

I like wine too much to let a little fly spoil it for me. I would get rid of the fly and finish the wine. Some things are just too precious to waste.

Obviously the fly has good taste to want to share only the best and how can I deney him?

Love how this topic has brought out participants for their very first (or second) posts. Glad I mentioned the gnat in my Tavel rose' and that Robin and others took it up as a poll topic.

Hope some of you posting for the first or near first time will contribute tasting notes in the future.

I'll second that!

Fruit flies/gnats... no problem... easily removed, easily forgotten. I've never been challenged by anything bigger, but I'm certain that I could never deal with a housefly... TOO NASTY!!

Had a bee land in my beer the other day. From just a few seconds of swimming it became obviously drunk and stumbled and bumbled around the table before eventually falling off.

And then I finished the beer.

That's great! Thanks for sharing!

Caught a little of funny home videos before switching stations and they showed a racoon drunk on fermented berries staggering around. My sister used to have a chokecherry tree and certain birds would get drunk on the chokecherries.

Hoke wrote:I cannot contain my outrage any longer. I am deeply offended by this post and all its ramifications. This is a clear insult to all gender-conflicted and alternative lifestyle people in the world. Or at least the wine world. Or at least this board.

Where are the slots for transgender people? Don't they get a vote? Don't they have a say in this? Why are we ignoring them as if they don't exist?

What if you're confused or conflicted about your sexual orientation? Shouldn't there, at the very least, be an "I'm not quite sure" or a "I'm a woman trapped in a man's body" or "I can't afford the surgery but I know I'm a woman whether I have a prominent Adam's Apple and excess body hair and a really deep voice or not."

And let's not forget the bi-sexuals either!!! Sure, they're not so much conflicted as they are interested in getting action from both sides (and maybe at the same time!). I mean, that's hot! Just think about... oh, sorry, got a little off track there.

Anyway, you get my point. Where's the outrage?

I am outraged that you didn't mention the all-important hermaphrodite contingent of WLDG. How could you not think of them, you unfeeling brute? Go sit in the corner until you're properly contrite.

Mark Lipton

Mark Lipton wrote:

Hoke wrote:I cannot contain my outrage any longer. I am deeply offended by this post and all its ramifications. This is a clear insult to all gender-conflicted and alternative lifestyle people in the world. Or at least the wine world. Or at least this board.

Where are the slots for transgender people? Don't they get a vote? Don't they have a say in this? Why are we ignoring them as if they don't exist?

What if you're confused or conflicted about your sexual orientation? Shouldn't there, at the very least, be an "I'm not quite sure" or a "I'm a woman trapped in a man's body" or "I can't afford the surgery but I know I'm a woman whether I have a prominent Adam's Apple and excess body hair and a really deep voice or not."

And let's not forget the bi-sexuals either!!! Sure, they're not so much conflicted as they are interested in getting action from both sides (and maybe at the same time!). I mean, that's hot! Just think about... oh, sorry, got a little off track there.

Anyway, you get my point. Where's the outrage?

I am outraged that you didn't mention the all-important hermaphrodite contingent of WLDG. How could you not think of them, you unfeeling brute? Go sit in the corner until you're properly contrite.

Mark Lipton

Sorry, I just thought the hermaphrodites were neither here nor there, Mark. Or maybe a hermaphrodite is in his/her own self sufficient little world?

There's only so much sensitivity a guy can show at one time, you know. Now go back to your ivy coverd ivory-tower, Prof!

Read Middlesex, Hoke, and you'll never scoff at hermaphrodites again. An absolutely terrific novel.

I thought you were putting us on Bob with a play on the title word until I looked up the entry on amazon.com. In fact, I had "Middlesex" mixed up with the George Eliot novel "Middlemarch." (One of Eliot's novels I haven't read.)

I have Middlesex on my bookshelf, Bob. One of those books I've always intended to read, and haven't yet gotten around to for some reason or other.

Good God? Sex wouldn't be allowed in an Eliot novel, JC!