TN request: Castel Rose 2011

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Re: TN request: Castel Rose 2011

Postby David Raccah » Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:27 pm

No more Viognier - period, though I think it is a HUGE mistake. Also, I have real issues with the Odem Mountain Chardonnay - far too much residual sugar - in my opinion. To me the Gush Eztion White, the Carmel White Riesling, and the Flam Blanc are starting to change the white wine scene.

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Re: TN request: Castel Rose 2011

Postby Gabriel Geller » Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:53 pm

David Raccah wrote:I have real issues with the Odem Mountain Chardonnay - far too much residual sugar

Dave, may I ask your opinion please re: Tzuba Chardonnay Late Harvest N.V. (white dessert wine)?
Last edited by Gabriel Geller on Tue May 01, 2012 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TN request: Castel Rose 2011

Postby David Raccah » Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:12 pm

I have not grid it - but from the name itself, I can deduce that it is a sweet wine - which is fine to me. My issue is with a wine that is overly sweet but trying to be a Chardonnay. In a way (not really though) it bothers me much like Herzog's Jenuesse Cabernet bothers me. Sorry, but if you want to make a sweet Chardonnay - GREAT! I loved Hagafen sweet Chardonnay. But if you want to make a wine that is fat and sweet like the old California Chardonnays, at least say it! That way, I can save my taste buds and run.

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Re: TN request: Castel Rose 2011

Postby Yehoshua Werth » Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:05 pm

Yes the Vionier they have been using is all goin(as the company said) to be in the Alma series wines.
sad people realy love the wild Yeast here very much..
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Re: TN request: Castel Rose 2011

Postby Yehoshua Werth » Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:24 pm

David Raccah wrote:No more Viognier - period, though I think it is a HUGE mistake. Also, I have real issues with the Odem Mountain Chardonnay - far too much residual sugar - in my opinion. To me the Gush Eztion White, the Carmel White Riesling, and the Flam Blanc are starting to change the white wine scene.

David



The Carmel is for sure another stand out.. Forgot that one...
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Re: TN request: Castel Rose 2011

Postby Joel D Parker » Tue May 01, 2012 7:29 am

Yehoshua Werth wrote:Very cool info..
On thought..
Your comment about people in Israel not drinking or avoiding Israel Wine yet this one seems good.. Hmmm
The worlds critics take them for what you will seem to have a very clear landscape view of Israel Wine'"Getting better and better."


True Yehoshua. I think it's a matter of style. More than a few Israeli wine lovers have discovered that the "world's critics" travel in herds. When you've had a lot of different styles, particularly from France, Italy, Spain, Germany and other countries in Central Europe you start to realize that wines can be refreshing, complex, dirty, clean, rustic, elegant or powerful in so many different, unique and clever ways. The big Israeli wines have been fighting to gain international recognition for so long, many winemakers confuse a good Robert Parker score with a high score in uniqueness and artistry. Israel still has a long way to go before winemakers fully capture the niches in climate, soil, wild yeasts, harvest timing, grape selection, and ideal varietals. Though some are getting it right some of the time, we feel that far too many Israeli wines are still too alcoholic, heavy, and manipulated to fit international tastes to be interesting--and they're expensive on top of that.

The best Israeli wines I've had in the last couple of weeks, such as an 08 Segel, single vineyard (I forgot) and the 2010 Dalton Petit Sirah Reserve were bold, fruity wines without too much alcohol, that served as very good and relatively inexpensive examples of the rustic, grainy-style with some local aromatics that a hot country can produce. I still have only had a couple of Israeli whites that managed to convince me that the acid was 'authentic' and that showed minerality and complexity and that made me want another glass.

The biodynamic and organic revolution will probably offer some ways to spice up the market over the next decade. Once the whole winemaking process gets more integrated and the farming and natural fermentation techniques become part of the design of the wine itself, we'll see a lot more uniqueness. And, as always, the winemaker will make a huge difference, and we're seeing some really good talent here. Obviously, most Israelis, even the snobbiest of us, is willing to give Israeli wines a chance. We're just not willing to prop up mediocre wines with our wallets, whether they're Israeli or from anywhere else.

Best,

Joel
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Re: TN request: Castel Rose 2011

Postby Pinchas L » Tue May 01, 2012 11:38 am

Joel D Parker wrote:
The winemaker, Gaby Sedan, generated a lot of buzz a couple of years ago (viewtopic.php?f=29&t=33267) and seems to be a hot topic among those of us here in Israel who generally avoid Israeli wines. His Sauvignon Blanc is near impossible to find, and I've heard it's quite good for an Israeli white. Sedan is known for using all natural yeasts and avoiding acidification as much as possible in our hot climate, and I think tends to go towards the organic/biodynamic side of things, even if his wines aren't labeled as such.

I'm hoping he'll produce a 2011 rosé so I can try it side by side with the Castel and Flam. (They should all be different given that they use different grapes)

***I THINK SHVO IS KOSHER, BUT DON'T KNOW FOR SURE, SO CHECK FIRST IF YOU'RE SHOMER-K.

Best,

Joel


Joel,

Gaby is one winemaker who's wines I would really like to have, especially since I think he's ahead of the curve in understanding the Israeli climate and soil, and extremely talented and individualistic to boot.

Regarding the kashrut of his wines, I would like to say that I spoke to him several months ago and he told me that his wines are not kosher and that he has no plans of seeking kashrut certification. His chief objection seems to be his reluctance to be restricted in any way in handling his wines.

Let me add that Gaby's '09 releases are not kosher because the fruit is "orla" (or "neta revai"), meaning that they are from young vines, not four years old. It should be quite trivial for his later releases to be kosher. I actually have a little plan how to have his wines satisfy my requirements for kashrut, that are admittedly not as stringent as those to which others adhere.

Finally, once you try the three rose' wines side-by-side, please share your notes.

Best,
-> Pinchas
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Re: TN request: Castel Rose 2011

Postby Mike BG » Fri May 04, 2012 7:19 am

David Raccah wrote:No more Viognier - period, though I think it is a HUGE mistake.

I think that HUGE is an understatement. One of our all time favourites! Very sad indeed.
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Re: TN request: Castel Rose 2011

Postby Daniel Kovnat » Fri May 11, 2012 5:19 am

A while ago in this string Joel said,
those of us here in Israel who generally avoid Israeli wines


I really wonder how many there are of you here in Israel avoiding the wines of Israel. I find this paradoxical in that there are now so many wineries, both big and boutique which offer so many styles and varieties of wine, especially for such a small country. Why on earth would anyone here actually avoid a local product which is more and more becoming recognized internationally for its high quality? Sounds to me like you are closing the door for yourself to pure pleasure. I am proud of my country and its wines.
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Re: TN request: Castel Rose 2011

Postby Gabriel Geller » Fri May 11, 2012 8:52 am

Daniel Kovnat wrote:A while ago in this string Joel said,
those of us here in Israel who generally avoid Israeli wines


I really wonder how many there are of you here in Israel avoiding the wines of Israel. I find this paradoxical in that there are now so many wineries, both big and boutique which offer so many styles and varieties of wine, especially for such a small country. Why on earth would anyone here actually avoid a local product which is more and more becoming recognized internationally for its high quality? Sounds to me like you are closing the door for yourself to pure pleasure. I am proud of my country and its wines.

Amen to that Daniel! :D

Shabbat Shalom!
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Re: TN request: Castel Rose 2011

Postby Jon Tabak » Mon May 14, 2012 2:03 am

I second David's opinion on the Odem Mountain Chardonnay. It was served at a friend's table who's a novice wine drinker and he swore by it (makes sense in retrospect). It's honestly rare when I go to friends that I get to try wine that I haven't already tasted, so I was genuinely excited. After the first sip I said to myself WTF!?...and I think it was audible :wink:
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Re: TN request: Castel Rose 2011

Postby Mike BG » Mon May 14, 2012 5:03 am

Whilst still waiting for my delivery from Castel, I bought a bottle of the Rose for Shabbos.
It was such a hit with everyone that I have now ordered another case from the winery.
We much enjoyed the 2009, but this one is reaqlly special!
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Re: TN request: Castel Rose 2011

Postby Yehoshua Werth » Mon May 14, 2012 12:19 pm

Told that all the Dalton Wild Yeast Vionier will now be going into the Two Alma Wines

SMV &
Alma White blended with Chardonnay

Someone will need to come up with a nice crazy white with gusto :)
The most ACTIVE wine so far for me is the Tishbi Brut.. Check it out.
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Re: TN request: Castel Rose 2011

Postby Gabriel Geller » Mon May 14, 2012 1:04 pm

I chatted a few days ago with one of the Dalton people and I took the opportunity to tell them what I think regarding the wild yeast viognier. He replied (is he reliable? I don't know) that they will probably produce it again in the future. We shall see (or not).
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