Philosophical Tasting Survey Question

[ChaimShraga]

Pinchas,

I think writing about those two wines is a good example of what I aim for. I like how Recanati created wines that show typicity of the grapes but put an individual spin on the style that makes them very Israeli, and I tried to capture that when I wrote about them.

Which sort of brings me back to my objection towards "grocery list" tasting notes. I think most wines only have one or two outstanding aromas and flavors that define them. With the Recanantiy Syrah/Viognier, it's the black pepper that refers to North Rhone. In my opinion, that's really all you need to know about the wine in terms of aromas and flavors to understand its context - beyond that, I think what sets it apart from the North Rhone is aspects of its structure. It's not necessarily that much riper but something about the fruit says "hot sun" to me in a way I don't get in the North Rhone even in hot vintages.

To cite other examples: you spot your Mosels due to the combo and apples and slates; Pauillacs are very currant-y in general; I could go on, but I think as a consumer, you want to know how much a wine conforms to it's paradigm and how good it is, how complex and nuanced. Once you know that, I doubt you're going to make your buying choices based on whether those nuances happen to include raspberries as opposed to strawberries, say. It might be good training for the senses to pick up those specifics, but I think writing about them in great length is one thing that has made the general public view wine geeks as pretentious.

[Craig Winchell]

I agree, Chaim Shraga, that laundry lists of descriptors often seem pretentious, but the novice should understand that these are simply ways of communicating a differentiation between similar wines. I agree with you that the major differences between reference wines of different types may only be one or 2 descriptors. When tasting blind, then, one attempts to associate a region or grape type, or even a producer, even when not knowing what one is tasting, and then one is either correct, or is pleasantly surprised, when things are not as they seemed. Yes, laundry lists are daunting and seem pretentious to non-wine people, who often are drawn to the other aspects of tasting notes- remembered experiences, and feelings, invoked by the aromas and flavors, social context, etc. But it is not only the non-wine-people or novices who get off on such things. Personally, I enjoy reading them myself.

[Pinchas L]

I agree, Chaim Shraga, that laundry lists of descriptors often seem pretentious, but the novice should understand that these are simply ways of communicating a differentiation between similar wines.

Craig,

What I'm trying to say is that using a laundry list is the simple way of communicating a differentiation between similar wines, but not the most effective one. The better way is to address those differences directly. It is often the case that someone drinking a wine senses that there is a lot going on, but is having a difficult time putting a finger on it, capturing its essence, shoots out a long list of adjectives that together seem to echo that fleeting feeling and the difficulty distilling it into precise words. Of course, getting a list of descriptors is better than not getting any information at all, and I appreciate the effort taken to capture all the nuanced flavors floating around in the wine.

-> Pinchas

[YoelA]

I dunno about da resta youse guys, but I ain't able to write what youse call "grocery lists" about wine. I don't tink that white chocolate has much taste. I can tell what I tink is a strawberry or even razzberry taste from currants or udder black fruit but not dat much from each udder. I love blueberries but don't tink I ever done tasted dem in a wine made from grapes. I can taste tree or four or maybe even five flavors in da aroma or taste of a wine but I can't find five or six different kinds of berries in one and I take my hat off to anyone who really can.

[Craig Winchell]

On the other forum, Tom Hill described an aroma and flavor as Vitalis. Forget fruit aromas now. From now on, it's different brands of personal products from our youth. When they start using different brands of douche as descriptors, it will be time to get out of the wine business (grin).