2008 Yarden El Rom is at Varietal...

[David Raccah]

Yarden Cabernet 2008 El Rom
"Showing every bit as well as at an earlier barrel tasting. Intensely dark garnet in color, deep and powerful, with ripe blackberry, blackcurrant and black cherry fruits. Still in its infancy with the tannins, wood and fruits starting to come together and with the kind of balance and structure that bode well for a well-focused and cellar-worthy wine. Destined for elegance so give this one the time it deserves. Approachable by 2012 but best only from 2014 or 2015 and then cellaring well until 2024, perhaps longer."
Daniel Rogov Rating 94-96
Our Price $58.49
This is a unbelievable price!!!

That's not all!!
Buy by the case for
$683.88 a case
That brings the cost down to $56.99 a bottle.
Must call, e-mail or walk in.

I do not work or have any affiliation with Varietal, just passing along info....

[E Segel]

Sadly (for many of us) there are great things being said about the Israeli 2008 vintages, who will not be able to appreciate it due to Shmita restrictions. I don't mean to start any controversy and I know there are heterim for their production and consumption, but unfortunately for myself and many others I know, we here in the US cannot rely on those heterim and will therefore have to miss out on drinking these fantastic sounding wines. I am a frequent patronizer of Varietal and would normally have sent in my order quickly when I saw this email, especially considering how Rogov's a.h. review equated it with Israeli wines that normally sell for 2-3 times the price. Alas I will have to rely on hearsay for this one...

[Yossie Horwitz]

Something to look forward to on your next trip to Israel!

[Isaac Chavel]

Sadly (for many of us) there are great things being said about the Israeli 2008 vintages, who will not be able to appreciate it due to Shmita restrictions.

Sorry, but it is getting on my nerves lately. There is to my mind a slight disconnect: that all these wine-sensualists are thrilled with every Israeli winery that becomes kosher but do not drink their sh'mitta wines, leaving the wineries to take the financial hit. For people who are so halakhically fastidious that they can't trust Israeli kashrut supervision, and at the same time are ready to part with $58.49/bottle and possibly quite a bit more, I have to wonder if we are coming just a bit too close to what Ramban refers to as נבל ברשות התורה .

I apologize in advance,

Isaac

[E Segel]

Sorry, but it is getting on my nerves lately.

And the controversy unfolds...

Calm your nerves Isaac, and try not to be so presumptuous. Anyone who has seen my (admittedly infrequent) posts here knows that I am a big fan and drinker of Yarden's wines, so I clearly don't have an issue with their kashrus during Shmita or otherwise. Rather the issue here is that the heterim that were enacted in Israel during shmita would not necessarily apply to consumers outside Israel, who have other options and wouldn't have to rely on a halachic "loophole". Many will disagree, however I asked a rav whose guidance I normally seek and follow, and this is what I was told. The fact that wineries take a financial hit during Shmita is nothing new - the Halachos of Shmita did not just "pop up", they show up every 7 years like clockwork, and every Israeli winery knows exactly what they are getting into and can and should plan accordingly.

No apologies are needed as we should all be allowed to speak our minds freely.

[Isi M]

I wouldn't be concerned for the financial hit the wineries take, as this is calculated into the price of the wine.
Some even make you pay a few times for the schmitta ....

[Shlomo R]

And the controversy unfolds...
Rather the issue here is that the heterim that were enacted in Israel during shmita would not necessarily apply to consumers outside Israel, who have other options and wouldn't have to rely on a halachic "loophole". Many will disagree, however I asked a rav whose guidance I normally seek and follow, and this is what I was told.

Interestingly, I read the label of a 2001 El Rom to a rav I respect and follow, and he mentioned that the vineyard is apparently outside the area covered by the original biblical restrictions, so there is no problem with my drinking the 2001 even now. I suggest you call the rabbi and give him all of the information. You can PM me for the label text on the 2001 El Rom.

[Gabriel Geller]

Interestingly, I read the label of a 2001 El Rom to a rav I respect and follow, and he mentioned that the vineyard is apparently outside the area covered by the original biblical restrictions, so there is no problem with my drinking the 2001 even now. I suggest you call the rabbi and give him all of the information. You can PM me for the label text on the 2001 El Rom.

Hi Shlomo, this indeed an extremely interesting point that worth checking out as the Elrom Vineyards has certainly not moved to anywhere since 2001!

Another point that should interest many people and you may call the wineries to check it and discuss it with your rabbis if you wish, I have asked several rabbis (modern orthodox) here in Jerusalem: all the wines such as Yarden's that are produced under the more commonly accepted "Otzar Beth Din" heter that have undergone proper Bi'ur from the kashrut supervisors at the winery just before Pessach 5769 (April 2009), that is to say displaying the wines from the shemitta year outside the winery for a little while as "hefker" (that in fact anyone passing by could just help himself... ), the wines afterward are no longer "kedushat shvi'it" and can be drunk by anyone and anywhere and therefore exported, even cooked (though I'd kill someone I'd catch cooking an Elrom '08!!!) and enjoyed outside Eretz Israel as well. I suggest strongly to anyone checking this carefully with his rabbi and call the winery for each different case.

Best,

GG

[David Raccah]

Guys I have brought this subject up often and it was decried because it did not fit the forum. That said, I enjoy the wine, in America ONLY, because the person doing the shipping is NOT me. Because Yarden exports the wine from Israel, you are fine. Further I have a letter from Rabbi Orbach (the supervision for Golan Heights Winery/Yarden), and here it is:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yi1 ... K8SmE/edit

I showed it to my Rabbi, and he told me that this along with the fact that I did not export shmitta to the US, allows us to enjoy it. Further, everyone in Israel drinks Yarden Otzar Beit Din shmitta wines, but some would not drink other otzar beit din shmitta wines, because they are not from the Galilee, which many think is not part of halachik Israel.

I have gone way off tangent here, I will leave you all to enjoy it or leave more for me
David

[Gabriel Geller]

Many thanks Dave, this document is very instructive and will be very useful for me!

GG

[Warren B]

Sadly (for many of us) there are great things being said about the Israeli 2008 vintages, who will not be able to appreciate it due to Shmita restrictions. I don't mean to start any controversy and I know there are heterim for their production and consumption, but unfortunately for myself and many others I know, we here in the US cannot rely on those heterim and will therefore have to miss out on drinking these fantastic sounding wines. I am a frequent patronizer of Varietal and would normally have sent in my order quickly when I saw this email, especially considering how Rogov's a.h. review equated it with Israeli wines that normally sell for 2-3 times the price. Alas I will have to rely on hearsay for this one...

Please be advised that all of Yardens Shmitta wines were produced under supervision of haRav A.D. Auerbach the Rav of Teveria and son of HaRav S.Z.Auuerbach ZT"L. They were all all in the possession of the Oter Bais Din till after the Zman "biur" and therefore except for having the halachos of kedushas shviis are perfectly permissable even for the most Chareidi. Rav Shalom Aronson at the Golan Heights Winery will be happy to answer and explain any questions.

Also, Stan Kotlar of Gold Path Wines & Spirits 45 Route 59, Monsey New York Telephone 1-845-356-0222 has been appointed by the Bais Din to be a "shaliach bais din" to sell these wines

[Bill Coleman]

The Binny's at 1720 N Marcey St in Chicago [Lincoln Park store] is selling the 2008 El Rom for $49.99/bottle, or six for $284.94 [that's $47.49/bottle]. And they still have some left after I visited them today!

[Stephen Weil]

Fantasic insight. Never thought about where the Vineyards were located.
The part of leaving the wine to be hefker in shmita year, surely it is the vinyards that must be hefker?

Steve

[Mike BG]

Fantasic insight. Never thought about where the Vineyards were located.
The part of leaving the wine to be hefker in shmita year, surely it is the vinyards that must be hefker?

Steve

No. Not the vineyards. The grapes.

[Stephen Weil]

To Mike and others
It's really a problem and its discussed in the gemora. If ElRom is outside of the boundaries of Israel etc, then they are duty bound to keep 2 days Yomtov as was discussed with Eilat and other areas. We don't want to go there we will never end the discussion so Teiko.

[Mike BG]

To Mike and others
It's really a problem and its discussed in the gemora. If ElRom is outside of the boundaries of Israel etc, then they are duty bound to keep 2 days Yomtov as was discussed with Eilat and other areas. We don't want to go there we will never end the discussion so Teiko.

Sorry. I think you misunderstood me.

I meant that the issue of 'kedushat sheviit' and declaring something ownerless ('hefker') applies to the FRUIT, and not to the vines or the land. Indeed, if people cause damage to the land or the trees on their way to helping themselves to the fruit, they are liable for any damages caused to the owner.