The Times 100 best summer wines

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The Times 100 best summer wines

Postby Trevor F » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:06 am

Top 100 summer wines for under GBP 20 as published recently in the London Times :

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_a ... 197411.ece
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Re: The Times 100 best summer wines

Postby Daniel Rogov » Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:21 am

On the same page as the above link, be sure to read A.A. Gil'ls restaurant review. Whatever one thinks of Gil, he's a critic about whom you have no choice but to think. The lines that catches me most in this particular review: "From the hors d’oeuvres, we tried a parmesan custard with toast, which I adored, though I understand it’s a sophisticated taste for people who have supped deep from the fleshy cup of pleasure. The more trepidatious might think it was like putting selected acne pus, matured in teenage disco sock, in your mouth."

Call that nouveau journalism, call it a stagnant pond or call it whatever you like but it does, by god, catch your eye.


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Re: The Times 100 best summer wines

Postby Michael Greenberg » Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:03 pm

You would of course get a vasltly different Top 100 Summer wines list from a Canadian or American based wine journalist...but then I would expect the Brits to be euro-biased on their lists..
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Re: The Times 100 best summer wines

Postby Trevor F » Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:11 am

Michael Greenberg ---"You would of course get a vasltly different Top 100 Summer wines list from a Canadian or American based wine journalist...but then I would expect the Brits to be euro-biased on their lists..........


Show us a list then from a US or Canadian Journalist.

26 out of 100 of those wines were from outside Europe
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Re: The Times 100 best summer wines

Postby Michael Greenberg » Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:39 pm

Trevor F: I wish I could find a TOP 100 or TOP 50 Summer Wines list from a Canadian or American wine journalist --but akas I guess nobody is up for that challenge..

HOWEVER -I did find another British attempt -this time just a Top 50 --from the rival Telegraph wine writer Jonathan Ray (just Google TOP 100 SUMMER WINES OF 2008 and Google actually puts the TOP 50 SUMMER WINES from this Telegrah article ahead of the Top 100 article from the Times)... I'm too lazy to check Ray's list to the Times Top 100 to see if there were any agreements or what % of agreements--but offhand when you do idiosyncratic lists from 2 different sources you rarely get a lot of agreement-even from 2 Brits..

HOWEVER--in his article RAY has the effrontery to suggest that the range of wines in Britain is finer than anywhere else in the World (the implication would be that British wine writers are thus better exposed to more wines? better wines? that wine writers elsewhere and thus somehow this makes their best lists more credible? reliable? -I don't know what? He is full of bunk if he thinks that ,,,as I'm certain that many wine writers in canada,the U,S.A. or even elsewhere could come up with lists of 50 or 100 Summer wines that would at least rival or exceed his..He probably also hasl less knowledge of Canadian and American wines as the North american winewriters do -yet there is plenty of product from around the world that gets to American and Canadian markets,but I bet that the snotty Brits do not fill their shelves with as much American and certainbly not Canadian product as we get here.. There are natural reasons for such differences..A Brit wine writeris going to be exposed to a greater abundance of European Union wines..wines from other parts of the world N.Z, Aussie wines,South Africa,Chile Argentina and some other places probably get equal attention from Brit writers as they do Canadian or American wine writers--but it is just my hunch that Canadian and American wine writers have to also encompass great knowledge of French,Italian,German and Spanish wines to get any "cred" -whereas I believe British wine columns i have read tend to reflect far less comprehension of what is going on in the North American "colonies" regarding wine.. I challenge the British notion that they have the finest range of wines available than any other country AND that their wine writers lists of Top wines in any category should be given so much credence--not that they are bad lists-but probably not based on enough knowledge inclusion as to be reliably comprehensive...though I must say that if you can't get access to a wine that a writer puts on a list,then the comprehensiveness of the list is not the issue --but the utility of the list as an advise to a consumer is. And finally,refereances of the wine writer himself/herself may affect these lists --eg. what if a writer likes certain wine types ahead of others--prefers SSauvignonblancs to chardonnays,etc?

A better use (for consumers) of such lists would be to Sub-categorize by wine type --especially for food matching..Thus maybe a Top100 orTop 50 list should be done more like:

The top 10 (or top 5) Chardonnays ..Rieslings...Sauvignon Blancs, etc...until tilla 50 or 100 list is made up consisting of several different wine types or blends...Then add some comments on what food pairings go best with those wines..THAT list would have far more utility and credibility than a mere Top 100 or Top 50 of all over the place wines that could easily be skewed by te wine writers own preferences.
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Re: The Times 100 best summer wines

Postby Daniel Rogov » Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:48 pm

All lists, including my own, whether of the 10 best, 50 best or 100 best wines or restaurants are idiosyncratic, depending on where the critic lives, what wines are made in the area in which he/she lives, what wines are imported, what wines he/she receives for tasting from various parts of the world, which wine trade fairs he/she attends. More than that, all lists have to be "adjusted" (call that "fiddled" if you like) in order not to have an over-representation of any one region on a specific list (think for example of the 2005 vintage in Bordeaux that if by score and quality only might dominate any list of best wines tasted in 2008).

Lists, like all generalizations, can be fun. And, if written by someone you trust, a good guide. They were not, however, handed down from Sinai.

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Rogov

P.S. Yes, come December 31, I will publish here my lists of 100 best wines tasted in 2008; the 100 best Israeli wines tasted in 2008; and the 50 or 100 best kosher wines tasted in that time. Also to be posted on the culinary side at that time my list of the 20 best restaurants in Israel and what I consider the 20 best restaurants in the western world.
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Re: The Times 100 best summer wines

Postby Trevor F » Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:22 pm

Michael Greenberg wrote:HOWEVER--in his article RAY has the effrontery to suggest that the range of wines in Britain is finer than anywhere else in the World


What effrontery ? The range of wines for sale in the UK, both in store and online, is more extensive than anywhere else in the world.

With regard to European wines, don't forget that the English wine trade has for hundreds of years either owned or has bought from estates in Bordeaux and Burgundy, the Douro valley in Portugal, Jerez for sherry and brandy and the Marsala estates in Sicily.

About 25-30 years ago wines from California, Australia, New Zealand and South America were first marketed in the UK. Californian wines were sold under the Paul Masson brand in carafes. The quality of this wine was so poor that it has more or less permanently damaged the image of Californian wines in the UK. Wines from Anzac, Chile and Argentina not only tasted good but were sold in proper bottles with good-looking labels.

The major supermarket chains not only have some pretty astute wine buyers but now sell some very fine wines. Tesco sells more wines than any other retailer in the world. Like Marks & Spencer and Shell Oil ( started by the Samuel family ) Tesco was started by a Jewish family. TE Stockwell was a tea supplier in the 1920s who sold a consignment to Jack Cohen. Stockwell supplied the TES and Cohen the CO. The Jewish connection has long since faded. Tesco, Sainsburys, Waitrose buy up vast amounts of vintages from all over the world.

As for idiosyncracy you could accuse any wine reviewer of that. There is always an element of subjectivity. I suspect from looking at wine websites in the US that a similar US wine list would include much the same wines as in The Times 100 list, maybe with a few more Californian or other US wines, but comprising no more than a third of the total.

Out of interest read Jancis Robinson on Tesco and other supermarkets at http://www.jancisrobinson.com/articles/20071016_12
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Re: The Times 100 best summer wines

Postby Daniel Rogov » Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:00 pm

Trevor, Hi....

Methinks you and Mr. Ray may be showing a bit of Anglo-defensiveness. Like both Ms. Robinson and you, I too applaud Tesco and Waitrose, indeed supermarkets offering a fine selection of wines from a measily few pounds to a not-at-all measily few hundred pounds. Let us not, however, get too carried away with the numbers without checking. It is quite true that Tesco offers more than 1,100 labels but I can name at least one wine shop in Tel Aviv that boasts at least 1,300 labels. And then there are shops in New York and its suburbs, Chicago, Madrid and forgive me, even Paris that boast 2,000-3,000 labels in stock. Heck, even the catalogues of several supermarkets in France list up to 2,000 labels during their special sales.

As to the English, no-one will take credit from them for their influence especially in Bordeaux, Jerez and Porto but as I recall Messrs Jefferson and Franklin had a passion for Bordeaux wines, George Washington was particularly fond of the wines of Madeira and so enamored were Americans of the white wines of Burgundy that in 1833 a bill was proposed that would make Burgundy whites the national wine of the United States of America. It took a fairly astute legislator to realize that those wines did not originate in the USA.

Not to misunderstand - I adore Berry Brothers & Rudd, always find good buys at Bibendum and thoroughly enjoy my expeditions at Tesco, Waitrose and even at the food halls of one or two great English department stores. On the other hand, I can assure you that there are a great many wines to be purchased even at the better branches of Nicolas and, would you believe, Safeway in California?

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Re: The Times 100 best summer wines

Postby David Creighton » Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:24 pm

i think the oddest thing about the list is that for summer there are only 4 pink wines. and only one of those is french. and did i miss one, or is the no vinho verde on there?
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Re: The Times 100 best summer wines

Postby Trevor F » Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:10 pm

Daniel Rogov wrote: Heck, even the catalogues of several supermarkets in France list up to 2,000 labels during their special sales.


And which is the only country represented by these 2000 labels ? Give you a clue ---- I bet it begins with an F.

Shortly after 1776 it was rumoured that German would become the official language of the US, such as it was then. Had that happened Niersteiner would have become the national wine of the new US.

Bis dann ! Schones Wochenende
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